Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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The teaching of K died with him........


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Thu, 26 Feb 2015 #91
Thumb_stringio Richard Nolet Canada 325 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jean Gatti wrote:
Richard Nolet wrote:

...and as you've already said Patricia, the forum can easily become a religious sacrament, an escape.
Right, there is a trend to make a religion out of K's teachings ... this is a way for ego to make itself important and dominate others (becoming an 'authority', the 'Grand Priest' of this new religion) ... K himself warned us against this dangerous distortion ...

Only fools would follow such a fool.

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Thu, 26 Feb 2015 #92
Thumb_stringio Richard Nolet Canada 325 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

The contents of consciousness is our fears, our hope, our believes, hurts, attachements, possessions, behaviours based on our culture, our conflicts, what else ? It is all in time, in thought. And it is the ego, the self. What is beyond ? What happen if consciousness empty itself of its contents ?

This post was last updated by Richard Nolet (account deleted) Thu, 26 Feb 2015.

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Thu, 26 Feb 2015 #93
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1374 posts in this forum Offline

Hi Sean: you wrote " I'm afraid I have no idea what you are talking about here."

I was addressing this methaporical so don't be afraid to get dirty.

Still working on 2 posts I'll adress soon, but working it out take more time and in the mean time let's shuffle sand over it so no one else get dirty too. There may be a problem though but that will become clear to all of us by reading this coming 2 posts.

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Thu, 26 Feb 2015 #94
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 854 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
From your posts I saw a question about an experiment and also something about how clear minded you are.

Hi again Wim,

Just to be clear, I have no knowledge of a question about an experiment. I have no knowledge of any posts talking about how clear minded I am. I think you may be confusing me with someone else.

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Thu, 26 Feb 2015 #95
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1374 posts in this forum Offline

Hello World, or to be more precise members of this site or to be exactly reader of this message.
( in this way it seems no one is excluded and it’s not personal ).

This is the first of two posts who belongs together but addressing different facets of this whole dialogue or whatever we want to call it.

Let’s get starting.
In wanting to explain or discover something we must take the risks in doing the communication of misunderstanding, aren’t we ?
If taking a road means someone else has already discovered it and others already used it, it’s clear that it’s not NEW at all.

So going in to the jungle of not knowing we only have the skills we have, let’s assume for the moment that’s observation, intelligent and awareness, the last one as well as for the outside as the insight world.
One of my skills is a scientific approach, but in that and all the other skills, I’m also an autodidact, which means learning by observation what and how and why others are doing the things they do.

So let’s look to a die.
Depending on our position, we’re seeing one, two or three silks and the others are outsight, knowing the structure of a cube.
There are 6 silks on every outside of cube and so we never see the whole at once.
Every silk is numbered on a particular way, opposite of every silk is the sum 7.
So if one sees one silk we know that the other silk must have the number 6, the other 4 stays unknown.
If one sees two silks clearly, we suddenly know 4 of them and only two stays unknown.
If one sees three silks clearly, we suddenly know all of them.

And that while that’s the maximum silks we can see.!!
So by seeing three silks we can know it all, and all we knew was numbered 1 to 6 and the particular way of numbering by opposites.
This numbers are called eyes and represented by dots.

So counting the dots, the eyes tells us something about what we’re not seeing and even if we ‘re seeing the maximum silks, we can know it all by using what we knew and accepting the conditions intelligently. We can’t call that boundaries, can we ?

Now if we bring each skill in one by one we can distinguish their properties.
For example:
greed will tell us something about egoism, materialism etc. etc.
proud will tell us something about vanity, etc.
etc. etc.

So it seems that material things can tell us something by looking in the eyes depending on who many silks are seen, knowing we’re not seeing everything. That’s creating thought changing material on another level. (the structure of our brain cells).

If this is a natural law what will happen if we take for example one diamante ? Ore more people seeing ? Ore more material ? Or another material like a dewdrop ?

Putting light on a subject create more thought/skill, despite of shadows.
Light on a dew drop create a spectrum of colors and not shades of grey, or Am I telling /seeing something not being Truth here?

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Thu, 26 Feb 2015 #96
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

Wah!You are grr..reat papa ji!

The above is as true as silk. . The silk is from Dhaka. Whole of the 16 yard package used to pass through the hole of a finger ring. This test was the test of the wholeness of the silk's truth. Even now there are men who pass through a finger ring. They are available in Motia kalana old Delhi. If a scientist like Wim wants to test his progress of his silk he can come to Delhi. But Delhi has great problem of electricity and water. Arvind Kejriwal is solving it. Visa to Delhi is free. Only US embassy is putting hindrances in it. But you from Wimbledon will have no problem. Since our pm modi is a friend of Obama. Or you can visit the country through the silk route itself. Do not bother about the ISIS They do not murder sane people. They only kill kids, women and misogynists. Welcome to India. Pass through the ring . Don't forget to take the truth certificate by passing through the hole. Finding a hole is very easy in Delhi. They are available on rent. Dime a dozen. Rest of this post after hearing you from a hole. Till then Bye Bye... Tata.. Tata

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Thu, 26 Feb 2015 #97
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

Wim papa ji.

Congratulations. You are the 37th and next in line.

Those earlier 36 who have crossed before
With direct eyes, to death's other Kingdom
Remember we at kinfonet -if at all-not as lost
Violent souls, but only
As the hollow men
The stuffed men.

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Thu, 26 Feb 2015 #98
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

Hi Ravi

Thanks for the laughs for # 96 , true reality check of the latest happenings of this country and the world around . I'm sure Wim too would appreciate it if he does some googling on India .

May be some day you would reveal this secret list of 36& 37 , sounds lethal it seems .

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Thu, 26 Feb 2015 #99
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1374 posts in this forum Offline

thanks for the congratulation, you shouldn’t have done that !!

It’s such a nice present you gave me, although we never met and even didn’t knew of your existence, from my silky site you can’t be seen completely, but by my lack of skills by interpretation of the incompleteness of the communication you must be a nice guy, on this silky site it’s like you’re all over the place and have lack of skills and/or thought and/or Intelligence.

If this information is troubling, please remind us that it seems that:
We can’t even help ourselves to be who we are, we are what we are and that’s all.
I’m sorry to say but I don’t even know how you cuddle your kids out there, so I reckon there’s a lot of stuff between us and maybe even a lack of light. I still don’t know anything.
It sounds cryptic, but being in a land without paths and nothing to hold on ‘seeing’ is all we have.

Give mum a hug, even if she don’t know who I’m.
I even don’t know if I’m yours or a dad at all, but strangely enough you seem to know me, give me status I don’t know I had or ever will or shall have.

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Thu, 26 Feb 2015 #100
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

Pavani

Thank God that you laughed at last.

My dear I am an old man. I, to keep the fun alive told I love mobikes and invited you for a ride. But you being the Indian woman didn't trust the old lion who says he is turned into a vegetarian. Well the fact now is:

"Because I do not hope to turn again

Because I do not hope

Because I do not hope to turn

Desiring this man's gift and that man's scope

I no longer strive to strive towards such things

(Why should the aged eagle stretch its wings?)

Why should I mourn

The vanished power of the usual reign?
........

Because these wings are no longer wings to fly

But merely vans to beat the air

The air which is now thoroughly small and dry

Smaller and dryer than the will"

Teach us to care and not to care

Teach us to sit still.

This post was last updated by Ravi Seth Thu, 26 Feb 2015.

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Thu, 26 Feb 2015 #101
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

Wim papa ji,

I gave you status by calling you the 37th in line. All ready the other 36 ( 4 are in my town) who had the direct seeing are a proof that k on his death bed did not know except who were near to him in his life time, who did not than others who did, understand the teachings. There must be many more.

Therefore in that context I had paid you my respects. I am an old man and in k teachings for millennia. I am absolutely frustrated over frustration that I haven't got the truth what you seem to have achieved. I have no skills nor any thought what the teachings say actually. Intelligence I know not.

I salute you Sir. Please be my guest whenever you happen to come to India through a Visa or the silk route.

p. s. I have given hug to Mum and she is happy and says Amen! ( she was the 12th one)

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Thu, 26 Feb 2015 #102
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1374 posts in this forum Offline

Hi Sean, you addressed me:

“ Just to be clear, I have no knowledge of a question about an experiment. I have no knowledge of any posts talking about how clear minded I am. I think you may be confusing me with someone else.”

Still working on the second post I mentioned before, but in trying to find out how things working, while surfing on a tsunami of information within me as well as in the archives took this note for ½ nov 2012. By my lack of one or more skills ( time, formulating or something else ). If it’s really not longer active in your current live, knowingly or not knowingly, my reference isn’t valid at all even its wrongly formulated. But is the metaphor valid or not ?
Learning to formulate I’m seeing we better skip the s…. word and replace it for “ dots, something unknown “.

Also the word “too” is one word to much. Haven’t we both learned something here ?

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Fri, 27 Feb 2015 #103
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1924 posts in this forum Offline

It would be ideal to stay, in some manner at least, with the topic that began this thread, but that seems to be impossible.

So it is with some sadness that I abandon it now.

Is it too much to wish that those who desire to spout nonsense on the forum would stick to the threads that they themselves start to display that nonsense?

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Fri, 27 Feb 2015 #104
Thumb_stringio steve sds United States 746 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Sorry to hear this Patricia. Is it too much to ask the moderator to do something about this problem on this site. It seems something needs to be done or addressed. I hope it is in the near future and serious posters like you are not discouraged from posting on here.

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Fri, 27 Feb 2015 #105
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1374 posts in this forum Offline

Dear Patricia: You wrote:

“Is it too much to wish that those who desire to spout nonsense on the forum would stick to the threads that they themselves start to display that nonsense? “.

No, it’s not too much to wish for and I even don’t know if it also was pointed at me.
I’ll promise you NOW that after my next post I’ll never ever shall bother you again.
There seems to be no translation on internet or wherever from the language used by TRUTH, Politness, Shame or whatever we will call it to our own language.
So we all are in the dark on this and thank there’s no copy right stickled on it whoever will discover it, otherwise the devil whatever he is got away with it.

I don’t know if this seems nonsense to you, but we all are what we are and we can’t even help ourselves because ‘IT’ seems to be an illusion to me.
I’m still grateful for the seeing I discovered in myself.

My and all the others only skills are: ‘words’, ‘language’ and ‘storytelling’ together with some shortcoming knowledge of structure (semantics) and matter.

I kindly request you to take notice of my last post on this site and then it’s out and over for me.

previsously thanks wim

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Fri, 27 Feb 2015 #106
Thumb_stringio Katy Alias ... United Kingdom 164 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

steve sds wrote:
Is it too much to ask the moderator to do something about this problem on this site.

It is for us all, really, to access 'the moderator within' and to not derail each other's threads.

It is very difficult to not be distracted by the 'frivolous-element' when one is being 'serious'.

Sorry that your thread has been derailed, Patricia...to be continued, perhaps, at a later point (?)

Katy

This post was last updated by Katy Alias ... (account deleted) Fri, 27 Feb 2015.

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Fri, 27 Feb 2015 #107
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1374 posts in this forum Offline

“ Last post “ not only in Belgium these words still mean something after 100 years and a very disastrous period of mankind.

Sadly enough there are members of the human kind who don’t want to learn from our history and still stay Humans with the appearance of barbarians behaving like animals or worse.
From this nameless state without borders seeing all this one would like to help, being helpless. Although ?

For those who’re serious, but not too much, who’re searching but not too much, who are playful, but not too much, who are what they are and have a presumption there’s something missing, this last post.

Knowingly this is incomplete and partly wrong and because of the shortcoming of language even not always precise formulated among other shortcomings.

Also knowingly that there is a saying in all the other states: ( legal and or police state ):
“ All what you say can and will used against you: “ This message: “ Leave out the ‘can and will’ change it to ‘shall’ and proof that it’s wrong to say what’s been said in post # ??
It’s impossible to repeat it NOW because it’s already forgotten after changed by living, seeing and observing and changing the skills. Knowingly this is incomplete and partly wrong.

It’s sad to have to say and or write ‘IT’ !! But also live is still beautiful, isn’t it Mina ?

Why this interview ? Do you have to promote something or to defend ? It’s very, very strange you know!!
What kind of question is this?
You begged me for more than 40 years for an answer I can’t give and NOW knowing the answer you begin again.
Some ‘PEACE’ of course!

For the rest of all this questions:
It’s neither. On this way in this form duality is more or less excluded. Also one avoid to be too personal on some subjects.
At the same time this division of speaker/ listener/interpreter/writer/creator etc. etc. is addressed and not denied.
It’s all one has been said, but there’s no proof of that, so why don’t we practices it ?

Aren’t we are all autodidacts in this matter, because if we depend on someone else we make ourselves dependent ?

It’s very unusual on this site or anywhere else in this or other worlds, even in the universe to do this, but how can one find something new if we don’t try to do something new ?
( there’s no proof of this statement or a lot of them before and after, is there ? )
It’s a new moment and also a new attempt to address some explanation of the posts placed on this site.

Of course we need insight into meaning depending on interpretation from the reader/writer using thought, thinking and or focus. This is something we have to keep in mind on the whole of this interview and all posts.

Placing the whole interview here appeared to take 4/5 A4’s so I’ve solved the problem and placed that in the archive so it’s not lost in space.

The really interested souls will found ways to the archive for me this ‘I’cloud is already fading away, like dust in the wind.

quod ad omnia: quicquid pax Ubicumque (latin)

This one you have to translate yourselves otherwise you all are too lazy to learn something.
That’s why someone was creative and discovered google and from hear saying: it seems that this one was a friend of the devil or maybe it was the devil himself. It’s not known.
You have to be careful with this because it’s mostly a lie. But ‘IT’ could be wrong on this one.

It’s mostly a core of ‘TRUTH’ entangled in the archive of the past, in a WEB constructed by onlines , and of offlines containing facts, lies, storytelling, nonsense, creativity, hope, disasters etc. etc.

Wim, stop “IT” move on.

P.S.: etc., etc. stands for something as eternity, endlessly, etc., etc..

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Fri, 27 Feb 2015 #108
Thumb_stringio steve sds United States 746 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Just so you know Wim, i was not referring to you in what i wrote above specifically. In fact, i enjoy your contributions and hope you stay on here and continue to post and share your unique perspective. What i shared above was a general comment, not directed at anyone specific. Just trying to bring the moderator to moderate here a little more and hopefully actually participate in some of the threads.

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Fri, 27 Feb 2015 #109
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1374 posts in this forum Offline

last post second edition.

Why you became a member of this forum ?
During the event I wrote about in my profile someone pointed me to this site and after reading a lot of the posts, while surfing, this post from Mina ( forever thankful ) catches my eye, and that was the beginning more or less. I offered her a Haiku – that’s something I’m doing already for many years to people who in some way are deer to me, family, friends or touching my deer -

It was one I had written years ago and se cached immediately the essence of it.
Then spontaneously my answer came out. And it became clear that a miscommunication has taken place.
So, being serious, I took a dive into it in my post #4.

Being new I used a lot of words wrongly and at first even the K. approach.

But why this story about the Zenmaster ?
That became like a puzzle, who’s pieces felt in place at once.
Because this seeing that there’s not only an impossible question possible leading to insight, but also an impossibility to answer a right question and also that miscommunication (verbally, physically, spiritually all or not partly ) from both sites has the possibility for even a right answer.

You’re seeing, or you don’t, you see !!

And also that addresses that there are different kinds of silences,
even in the time span of this physical/material silence .

Then you responded again on Mina
but totally different and on basis of another forum, why and how?

Reading on the site by a kind of searching my way in this maze of information from so many people.
And came suddenly upon this post about her telling a story she heard from a cloud.
You could call it a Quantum leap, so to speak.

In the mean time there was a lot of information by surfing on this wave of the ocean in front of me or better said below me.
While surfing you aren’t busy with collecting, you try to keep your balance and a lot of details who are there you failing because of the speed and the focus.

That kind of playing with the stuff went on until #6 I think it was, between being serious and fun, no not between it was both.

Than another so called Quantum leap ?
Yes a nice switch of a surfing wave. There it became very serious together with an entanglement of storytelling, reality, thought and ‘using my brain for a change’.
This is by the way also the title of a book I read from a period in my live where in trying to keep my head above the water, was busy with NLP. Then ‘I’ realized that the same sentence could be interpreted two ways.

Also like this something so far away from K. and at the same time seeing similarities and differences, but when trying to talk about that and this noticed that no one understood.

Why introduce this lunatic ?
That came, because of the reaction therefore.
This joke I knew, changed suddenly from general into personal by using “I” in the last sentence.
One letter and such a great jump in possible meanings.
That’s why later on I put a blank line in between. After this kind of scrabble played in the next post.

If you ponder this over it also is something saying as:
I’m no border liner, there is no border it only seems that I’m insane, maybe we all are as well as san as insane.
I really don’t know.

Of course this is still all depending on interpretation from the reader/writer using thought, thinking and or focus, as I said earlier.
But if you repeat that by every sentence or idea, it becomes boring, isn’t it? Also it seems that you have some expectation that those listening/reading/interpreting don’t doing that and that is something you can’t know because it’s character of disappointment and future.

There’s pure logic and also something else, what seems to be disorder/chaos but that is according to David Bohm something like that but from another order from which the order is not yet known. If you point that to the film-world you come out by “The Matrix”.

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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Mon, 02 Mar 2015 #110
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1374 posts in this forum Offline

‘Last post’ third edition ( hopefully the last one, I don’t know yet ).

This is a trick of course to keep my promise to Patricia that I would post only one post but time and space is too short for this quantum of words, with hopefully some meaning otherwise a lot of my post proofed to be truth and others wrong, but isn’t it that always the case ?

“Whatever you say about something, it will always be something different and ….” (Korzybski) the rest I’m forgotten NOW but you can find it out, hopefully.

There’s this saying:
When the wise man is pointing to someone, at the same time someone is looking.

Only on this statement alone you can on deliberating forever.
But let’s try to put an end on this interview.
We’re running out of time. So the rest of the interview.

Where were we ?
Leaving post #6 behind… no it’s vijf 5 but in #6 there’s this recognition of me being too much in the scene or in this case on the ‘screen’.

How did you get on post #7 ?
….. I can’t remember this now, but that doesn’t matter is it ? it’s the last topic and I lost the ‘thread/wires’ of this switching topic’s, so it’s easier to number the posts if you pointing NOW by the numbers within this topic.

That statement of Patricia in #1 together with my interpretation during living, specifically those with the help from Krishnamurti and Bohm set me so to say in fire, leading to #2.

What did creating the tears?
I’d already lost my parents and coming from a very large family at that moment in time, we lost the first one of our own generation, my brother in law, also named Wim. On our way to/from the cremation this song entered into our lives, touched our souls, creating tears.
There is here a lot more to tell but then it creates etc., etc.

And post #7 ?
That was to do with the other posts in this topic, started as a quote, suddenly changing in personal and in the surrounding of the site, may be some universal meaning .
We will never know, do we ?

In # 11 I responded on a way also to do with my background, playing scrabble with my wife and my last working career, which began as subjects filler (unschooled work ), clerk, accountants assistant, administrator programmer and ended as system designer.
Got invalid because of my eyes around my 50th

What’s wrong with your eyes then ?
Also on that item there’s a lot to tell, but I’m born with it and from my 10th until my 15th it mostly consumed my live.
Then a young ophthalmologist Dr. Gobin discovered it and operated it as far as he could.
NOW I can joking about it in terms with my eventually clear and sometimes wrong seeing.

How so ?
Now it seems to be that I’ve more eyes then a lot of you.
One lazy eye, one prominent eye , one farsighted eye, one close seeing eye and also there’re grades of the seeing circle which I can’t reach. So plenty of potential excuses in forehand so to say.
Posts (#11) & (#15) were responses on posts from other members ?

And what about #27 ?
Reading it back, there I flipped completely over to my own seeing at that moment.
And also not knowingly laying the fundament for the future posts, I think.
An entanglement from past, future in the now. Using the past to clarify the seeing/doing ?

Post #37 I rather want to forget or jump over but that’s a slippery statement, also for me NOW.
It’s NOW transformed in my brain to:

There’s a great difference between creating ‘IT’, eating ‘IT’ and being ‘IT’.
If you’re creating ‘IT’, you have to consume ‘THOUGHT’.
If you’re eating ‘IT’, you’re in this seemingly sane world.
If you’re being ‘IT’, it doesn’t matter, you’re just being happy, happy with all those and what’s around you.

Now there are people who are laughing, this are the fools
Also there are people who gone defend one of us, this are the followers
And the rest remains quit, waiting, searching, debating, communicating etc. etc.

and still there are some of them because they’re seeing the TRUTH in this.

To repair the eventually damage are the posts #93 #102.

What’s the status of #95 ?
There it seems I took the seat of the master teaching his pupils.
Post #99 is the act on a confounding post in my own dialogue and this one on the forum/topic.

Who’s Patricia ?
I’ve never met her in real live but from what I saw in the dialogue already in spirit without any response on her posts.
So when she announced her stepping out and the reasons why there was nothing else to do than response with #105.

And then your last Post. Really fantastic.
Please don’t give me status, there is the danger of vanity and a lot of other drugs which could poison the meaning of what’s going on.

Why this last post to Mina ?
There was so much changed in my live. At that moment I couldn’t talk about it and it was blocking this last post.
This appeared to be the solution, to keep real live and moving spiritually aside. A kind of helpline while surfing.

Yes do you surf?
No not in real life not online, because of this eye problem, though I want to do.

Why using that word ‘Tsunami ?’
Yes this has a dangerous connotation with danger, dead and surviving.
But at the same time it is, I’ve survived physically and mentally and lost the baggage of my past, so to say.
So it appeared that to release is not an action in itself but a liberation to survive.

There’s so much more to tell but it stop now.

One last question ?

Have you ever published something ?
Yes and now, on my 60th birthday I gave a booklet( on my own account and management) with all my poems and Haiku, to my family and friends.
In my youth there are two responses published in the paper on the dead of Pope Johannes XXIII and President Kennedy.
I was busy with a bundle of more haiku for my 70e birthday.

Excuse me for my sometimes bad English and or formulation.
It was a mix from Dutch/English which sought and found a way out. With sometimes the help of google I translated it in one language knowingly that Truth has its own ways to translate the essence in our minds.

Thanks for your patience and interest. In love Wim

Truth will unfold itself to those who enquire their own actions.

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