Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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The teaching of K died with him........


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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #31
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 774 posts in this forum Offline

Hello Jean,

Thanks for reading and commenting on my post

Krishnamuri wrote "We are the world. The world is you and me, the world is not separate from you and me. We have created this world - the world of violence, the world of wars, the world of religious divisions, sex, anxieties, the utter lack of communication with each other, with no sense of compassion, consideration for another."

Given the quote above, can I ask you Jean if you think that it is importat to show a sense of compassion and consideration for others when we post on this forum? This is a genuine question as I am really not sure if this is something which is valued here or how pople feel about this.

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #32
Thumb_patricia_1_2016_copy Patricia Hemingway Australia 1913 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
Bravo! Have you encapsulated the mans effort over 60 years, in one sentance?

It is very noble of you Randall to leap heroically to the defense of K's teaching after just claiming above:

randall merryman wrote:
I would suggest further that there is no such thing as "K's teaching".

Better to encapsulate than to dismiss altogether surely.

The total negation of the human consciousness is no small thing I can assure you.

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #33
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Given the quote above, can I ask you Jean if you think that it is important to show a sense of compassion and consideration for others when we post on this forum? This is a genuine question as I am really not sure if this is something which is valued here or how pople feel about this.

Yes I agree, but not necessarily 'because' of K's quote ... however my point is that you don't have to 'expect' such behaviour from others ... all you can do is to practice it yourself ... then see what happens ...

Better not build too many expectations ... and deal with things as they are (and not as they 'should' be) ...

:-)

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #34
Thumb_patricia_1_2016_copy Patricia Hemingway Australia 1913 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
a sense of compassion and consideration for others

What exactly do you mean by those words Sean?

If we all get together and agree, will that change the fact?

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #35
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
We have created this world - the world of violence, the world of wars, the world of religious divisions, sex, anxieties ...

I was just wondering why you have put the word 'sex' just next to 'wars' and 'religious divisions' ... what is exactly the problem you see with 'sex' ? Do you mean sexual addictions or violence or maybe something else ?

??

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #36
Thumb_patricia_1_2016_copy Patricia Hemingway Australia 1913 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
Krishnamuri wrote "We are the world. The world is you and me, the world is not separate from you and me. We have created this world - the world of violence, the world of wars, the world of religious divisions, sex, anxieties, the utter lack of communication with each other, with no sense of compassion, consideration for another."

It is preferable to embrace - and LIVE - the WHOLE of the teaching of K. That is the true challenge.

The easy way is to take one small statement as you have, and preach that.

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #37
Thumb_profiel Wim Opdam Belgium 1325 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:

Given the quote above, can I ask you Jean if you think that it is important to show a sense of compassion and consideration for others when we post on this forum? This is a genuine question as I am really not sure if this is something which is valued here or how people feel about this.

A kindly suggestion: read all the posts from me on this database and in the profile.
So I don’t have to repeat what is already said.
From your posts I saw a question about an experiment and also something about how clear minded you are.

So let put that to the test in a little experiment.

There’s a great difference between creating shit, eating shit and being shit.
If you’re creating shit, you have to consume.
If you’re eating shit, you’re out of this sane world.
If you’re being shit, it doesn’t matter, you’re just being happy,
happy with all those and what’s around you.

Now there are people who are laughing, this are the fools
Also there are people who gone defend one of us, this are the followers
And the rest remains quit, because they are seeing the TRUTH in this.

I can only use words already existing, in dictionaries, title of books or films
or their content,this is pointing towards meaning.

Still Love you ;)

Truth will unfold itself for those who enquire their own actions and only to them and for them and to or for no one else.

This post was last updated by Wim Opdam Tue, 24 Feb 2015.

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #38
Thumb_stringio Richard Nolet Canada 325 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jean Gatti wrote:
Sean Hen wrote:

We have created this world - the world of violence, the world of wars, the world of religious divisions, sex, anxieties ...

Jean Gatti wrote:
I was just wondering why you have put the word 'sex' just next to 'wars' and 'religious divisions' ... what is exactly the problem you see with 'sex' ? Do you mean sexual addictions or violence or maybe something else ?

This is how things goes in the forum. As you say earlier Patricia, things become personnal, pointing at the others lacks without even listening and see our owns. The words have become important. Listening is not only listening what others says, but our own reactions. And even if everyone would agree on one thing , that will not change anything, that would not change the world. To change the world, one must to change ourselves. There lies the seeing, the real understanding of : we are the world. The simple affirmation of our understanding doesn't change anything either, though if one see that it flatter ourselves one have somthing real, there is listening. Who start with: I don't know nothing and simply observe ? If the quote of Sean is human consciousness ( K:...We have created this world - the world of violence, the world of wars, the world of religious divisions, sex, anxieties ...), then I suppose that this is the human consciousness you are talking about Patricia. Not sure about the word negation, but at least the seeing (really), the understanding and the end of it would be a good start. And it all start by ourselves. This is where the individual is important. K. says the real individual is undivided. Which mean what ? And then change occurs, in life. It will not occurs in a forum.

This post was last updated by Richard Nolet (account deleted) Tue, 24 Feb 2015.

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #39
Thumb_stringio Richard Nolet Canada 325 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

...and as you've already said Patricia, the forum can easily become a religious sacrament, an escape.

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #40
Thumb_photo_jg4 Jean Gatti Belgium 8638 posts in this forum Offline

Richard Nolet wrote:
...and as you've already said Patricia, the forum can easily become a religious sacrament, an escape.

Right, there is a trend to make a religion out of K's teachings ... this is a way for ego to make itself important and dominate others (becoming an 'authority', the 'Grand Priest' of this new religion) ... K himself warned us against this dangerous distortion ...

Why resist 'what is' ?

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #41
Thumb_dm Dan McDermott United States 1352 posts in this forum Offline

randall merryman wrote:
forum
Offline
mike c wrote:

Can one actually negate? I don't know.

R:Yes quite. Anyone with the first hand relationship with/to the action of "negation", please tell us all about it.

Will you settle for less than "all"?:) I'm thinking of a habit;say smoking and looking at it in terms of 'energy' (the 'energy of that habit). It's an habitual act: with triggers: food, drink, sex etc. And if I want to stop the habit, perhaps I find that I can't but as I 'see' more and more the potential danger, my slavery to it, peoples reactions to it etc., the awareness of my doing it (which in the past there was little or no 'awareness') causes it (possibly) to disappear. The 'need' is "negated", the 'energy behind the habit is withdrawn. The 'seeing' is the "action of negation"?

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #42
Thumb_stringio mike c United States 941 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Richard Nolet wrote:
And then change occurs, in life. It will not occurs in a forum.

Most likely. But what's the forum good for? Does it sharpen the mind by not remaining in our 'ivory towers', and getting feedback to our pet K-isms? Even if this is debate and not dialogue (I'm not saying it is), is one better off to sometimes throw one's ideas out there, or one's responses, to see how they stick? After all, one can always leave the forum when one feels they've gotten enough (or had enough!) out of it.

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #43
Thumb_stringio Richard Nolet Canada 325 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

All what you say here Mike is right. I am participating because of all that. We are all people sharing same interests. And that I appreciate. Debate is o.k. Dialogue is o.k. too.

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #44
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

Story of K and it's teaching... P version...

World K teaching investigation bureau headquarter,
Chief asking to the investigation officer P,:- any clue about missing K teaching?
P:- report is quite shocking...teaching is not missing, it's dead!
Chief:- What!!!how...please speak in some detail...
P:- We have found a skeleton near K's ashes..conducted DNA test which revealed it was K teaching, postmortem report says it's died because K died...
Chief:- how sad...poor K worked hard for more than 60 years, how his holy soul will feel when it will be informed about this shocking thing...
P, with secret smile, :- He already knew this, he was well aware that teaching will die with him...
Chief:- you are going to kill me with shocks...then why he was engaged in printing, writing and publishing these teaching...
P:-I have investigated deeply, he had said it very clearly that being an enlightened he can't do any other job better than teaching to earn his bread and Mercedes...otherwise he knew very well there no communication was possible between an enlightened and human being...
Chief:-okay...case closed...congratulation P

Note:-A passerby says that words never were thing, teaching never was alive, it was/is pointer to alive!!!(sorry for poor English)

I don't know

This post was last updated by dhirendra singh Tue, 24 Feb 2015.

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #45
Thumb_stringio Pavil Davidov Poland 4402 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Well, thank you for the police report Dhi. It seems that these Knut intrepid researchers, after 44 posts, have discovered that a bunch of books and videos does not constitute a life form. And I just borrowed Ana's stethoscope to put against a rather worn copy of Think On These Things and can confirm the lack of a heartbeat. I put Jean's mirror against the hole at the top of the spine and it did not mist up. There was no sign of kundalini or even kinfolini energy in the spine at all. I will turn off the life-support system and go up onto the roof at midnight with my collection to prepare it for an aerial burial.

"Wherever you go, there you are." Insight from Mullah Nasruddin

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #46
Thumb_stringio b. teulada Portugal 495 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
So the inquiry never rises above the personal - never moves into the general, let alone the universal.

quite true Patricia, but could that be because we start with the personal - as K himself suggested ("to go very far you must start very near") - and the inquiry gets so difficult from the outset, that we are, indeed, incapable of moving into the general?

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #47
Thumb_stringio mike c United States 941 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

For what it's worth, my copy of The Ending of Time is still throbbing.

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #48
Thumb_stringio b. teulada Portugal 495 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jean Gatti wrote:
Better stick to facts and not build expectations ...

there's the fact that people have expectations ... :-)

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #49
Thumb_stringio mike c United States 941 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

b teulada wrote:
the universal.

quite true Patricia, but could that be because we start with the personal - as K himself suggested ("to go very far you must start very near") - and the inquiry gets so difficult from the outset, that we are, indeed, incapable of moving into the general?

True...

"And it is not selfish to think that each one must first understand and change himself to help the world. You cannot help another unless you know yourself. Through self-awareness one will find that in oneself is the whole." -Living in an Insane World (from the Repository)

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #50
Thumb_stringio b. teulada Portugal 495 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
The total negation of the human consciousness is no small thing I can assure you.

getting mankind to stare in the face of its own nothingness? no; not a small thing.

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #51
Thumb_stringio b. teulada Portugal 495 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

mike c wrote:
For what it's worth, my copy of The Ending of Time is still throbbing.

mine too Mike, mine too

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #52
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 749 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Randal: I would suggest that the things K pointed out, existed and had been pointed to, before he was born.

Patricia: Yes Randall. The disorder was/is always there/here.

Mina: Interesting that Patricia took Randal's sentence to mean the disorder. When I read it, it was clear that instead of the disorder of a thinker, the things K pointed out or pointed to, was really timelessness which is not dependent on the death of the body. Something that is always there to be discovered. I would say that the disorder/thought is not always there, but has a beginning and an end. The timeless has neither.

This post was last updated by Mina Martini (account deleted) Tue, 24 Feb 2015.

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #53
Thumb_stringio Mina Martini Finland 749 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Patricia: 'K's teaching is the total negation of the human consciousness.'

Mina: Yes. This negation is action of the whole.

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #54
Thumb_stringio Richard Nolet Canada 325 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Hi Mina. Life is strange. The last time I've talk with you, I had asked you: can I ask you Mina what do you mean by these words : the whole ? Maybe you didn't see it, because you had not answer. Seems appropriate here again .

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #55
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 774 posts in this forum Offline

Jean Gatti wrote:
I was just wondering why you have put the word 'sex' just next to 'wars' and 'religious divisions' ... what is exactly the problem you see with 'sex' ? Do you mean sexual addictions or violence or maybe something else ?

Hi Jean,

I think you're confused here. I was quoting Krishnamurti so he's the only one who could have answered your question. The full quote is:

Krishnamurti said, "We are the world. The world is you and me, the world is not separate from you and me. We have created this world - the world of violence, the world of wars, the world of religious divisions, sex, anxieties, the utter lack of communication with each other, with no sense of compassion, consideration for another..."

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #56
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 774 posts in this forum Offline

Wim Opdam wrote:
From your posts I saw a question about an experiment and also something about how clear minded you are.

Hi Wim,

I'm afraid I have no idea what you are talking about here.

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #57
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 774 posts in this forum Offline

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
It is preferable to embrace - and LIVE - the WHOLE of the teaching of K. That is the true challenge.

The easy way is to take one small statement as you have, and preach that.

Hi Patricia,

Thanks for taking the time to read and comment on my post.

I wasn't aware that I was actually preaching anything. I thought I had asked a question. Just to give some context, I quoted Krshnamurti (full quote at end of message) where he talks about the lack of communication we have with each other, the lack of compassion and consideration. My question wasn't inteded to offend anyone or to put anybody down. I agree with you Patricia that it's important to live the whole of the teaching of K. I would think that compassion and consideraion for others come into this whole.

My question was (to Jean) "do you think it is important to show a sense of compassion and consideration for others when we post on this forum?" I do think it's a reasonable question. I'm not sure what you think about this Patricia. From your earlier reply, it seems tha you wouldn't really consider this so important. Is that right?

The full quote from Krishnamurti is "We are the world. The world is you and me, the world is not separate from you and me. We have created this world - the world of violence, the world of wars, the world of religious divisions, sex, anxieties, the utter lack of communication with each other, with no sense of compassion, consideration for another."

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #58
Thumb_patricia_1_2016_copy Patricia Hemingway Australia 1913 posts in this forum Offline

Richard Nolet wrote:
Not sure about the word negation, but at least the seeing (really), the understanding and the end of it would be a good start. And it all start by ourselves. This is where the individual is important. K. says the real individual is undivided. Which mean what ? And then change occurs, in life. It will not occurs in a forum.

Thanks Richard for you input.

Yes - 'negation' is just a word also, until the importance of the ACTION of negation is understood.

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #59
Thumb_patricia_1_2016_copy Patricia Hemingway Australia 1913 posts in this forum Offline

b teulada wrote:
quite true Patricia, but could that be because we start with the personal - as K himself suggested ("to go very far you must start very near") - and the inquiry gets so difficult from the outset, that we are, indeed, incapable of moving into the general?

Yes V, that could be the reason for the silly personal attacks. But surely we can move beyond that. There is no choice but to move beyond that.

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Tue, 24 Feb 2015 #60
Thumb_patricia_1_2016_copy Patricia Hemingway Australia 1913 posts in this forum Offline

mike c wrote:
Can one do anything? Anything one does is from 'me'. Observation, insight, may be of a different order. Can one negate? Or just passively observe? What is insight? What is learning about the self? You see what I'm saying? Can one actually negate? I don't know.

Do you really believe Mike that anyone can give you the words to answer this dilemma - on this forum or anywhere else?

Is it not a matter of FINDING OUT through the action of negation?

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