Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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A Letter


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Mon, 08 Apr 2013 #1
Thumb_stringio Arthur Landon United States 146 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dear Believer,

When you are conscious of the difference between representation and what it stands for, you can't fool yourself and you're unlikely to be fooled by others. But when you're dimly aware of this difference, all you can do is blow smoke until you blow your top, and repeat the process.

You start the fire with an emotionally charged word or notion, stoke it with quotes, cliches, platitudes, encomiums, bromides, ancient ideas, and pompous blather. Your activity may or may not draw others into your vortex, but eventually, something combustible gets thrown onto the flames and you thrill to the explosion...or, if you're soap-operatic, you cry for the victim and glare at the villain.

This is your conditioning; it is what you are. The least you can do is own up to it.

Yours truly,

Skeptic

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Mon, 08 Apr 2013 #2
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5663 posts in this forum Offline

Deja Vu all over again. Nick, Lidlo, Arther, asshole, whatever you want to call him is up to his same old crap. His above paragraph so aptly describes him. Except he's left out the obsessiveness, the fanaticism, the emptiness of his life that drives him, compels him, to come here day after day, week after week, month after month saying the same crap. It you want to keep reading this garbage reply to him. If not just ignore him. Please seriously consider the latter.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Wed, 10 Apr 2013.

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Mon, 08 Apr 2013 #3
Thumb_stringio Arthur Landon United States 146 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
Except he's left out the obsessiveness, the fanatiscism, the emptiness of his life that drives him, compells him to come here day after day, week after week, month after month saying the same crap.

Jack, I couldn't have described your behavior more exactly. Thankyou for that. At least you can speak forthrightly, which is more than can be said for the rest of them.

Jack Pine wrote:
It you want to keep reading this garbage reply to him. If not just ignore him.

It's a good thing you don't take your own advice, Jack, or you wouldn't have replied to me. Your desire for more "garbage" is duly noted and I will try to serve it up to you the way you like it.

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Tue, 09 Apr 2013 #4
Thumb_img_7089_copy Eve G. Indonesia 1570 posts in this forum Offline

Hi Jack,

We have been there before and we will be there again. This is either a ploy to drum up participants or this person is deeply disturbed. So best left alone.

Arthur and K,
You have been down this road time and time again, repeating the same insults and behaviors th over and over again expecting different results. This is the definition of insanity according to Einstein.

Get help.

The nature of the change from disorder is silence.

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Tue, 09 Apr 2013 #5
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

Katy A wrote:
Why are people so angry with Arthur's writing here? There is no competition for space.

As you said people give what they have in their hearts. I am a 'heart - person', mostly, so it is my luck to recognise this in others when they are not being blatantly hostile.

Oh Katy that's indeed a nice letter and as you have mentioned in your post , it is full of heart content . 

Well if you ask me what comprises K people .. I would say it's a good mixture of both heart as well as mind combination working in equal proportions . 

In fact It does make one wonder how some  people never change in their  structure and never ever keep a check on what / how they are behaving with their fellow posters ... all far off from each other , never meeting , not knowing a bit about each other's lives .. yet write with so much venom and vengeance ? Forever ready to sharpen their knives / pens at certain people ... And what is their fault ? Ability to write openly and blatantly ...  Do we ever come out of the images we have of people or of ourselves and see things in complete objectivity , compassionately and dispassionately ... ? Because for people like me that's again what constitute exploring and inquiring  is all about .

But I think more than anything else we love listening to our own voices and we give the garb of K . 

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Tue, 09 Apr 2013 #6
Thumb_img_7089_copy Eve G. Indonesia 1570 posts in this forum Offline

pavani rao wrote:
Katy A wrote:

Why are people so angry with Arthur's writing here? There is no competition for space.
As you said people give what they have in their hearts. I am a 'heart - person', mostly, so it is my luck to recognise this in others when they are not being blatantly hostile.
Oh Katy that's indeed a nice letter and as you have mentioned in your post , it is full of heart content . 

Katy, you have chosen to run to the rescue of Arthur by posting how poor Arthur is banned. Perhaps you need to let things be, George and others here, are not irrational people acting on an impulse. There is much you don't know.

You both have partial understanding and a very quick judgment and conclusion. There is a great deal that you don't know and many years of it.

It is a shame that you don't take pains to read all the insults in variety of places. Jack is blatant and perhaps there is a better way to express his frustration. But it is honest and based on facts.

If you have known the history behind the story and the pains Jack took in order to sort things out with LL, Nick, Arthur....you would have a better understanding. You simply don't know and we will not tell you.

As for Katy, you have had several episodes here, remember? I will say no more. You are very vulnerable and there is no intent here to harm you.

But you do need some help. Jack did not mean to harm you either....

Arthur is not whom or what he seems. Enough said.

The nature of the change from disorder is silence.

This post was last updated by Eve G. Tue, 09 Apr 2013.

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Tue, 09 Apr 2013 #7
Thumb_img_7089_copy Eve G. Indonesia 1570 posts in this forum Offline

pavani rao wrote:
And what is their fault ? Ability to write openly and blatantly ...  Do we ever come out of the images we have of people or of ourselves and see things in complete objectivity , compassionately and dispassionately ... ? Because for people like me that's again what constitute exploring and inquiring  is all about .

Rao, this maybe a cultural difference. This is cyber space and not a place for one to indulge with their emotional self. There are many here with serious mental illness, and just because they write beautifully, it does not change the fact.

What you see as a vicious attack maybe seen from your conditioning, there is nothing vicious about Jack, careless perhaps but that is it.

On this forum you are writing to people who are drug users, alcohol users, Psychotropic medicated individuals etc...

This is not group therapy and it is dangerous to assume it is. At the talks with K there were plenty of unbalanced people and I have seen them being treated firmly.

You are making all kinds of assumptions.

The nature of the change from disorder is silence.

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Tue, 09 Apr 2013 #8
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

The poster asks a question.."them?" well you know it is really the same as the following statement from the same poster made earlier in this thread...as follows.."What lovely people you Krishnamurtians are presenting yourselves to be !:)AS you can see?LOL:) In reference to post #12 and #7!

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

This post was last updated by RICK LEIN (account deleted) Tue, 09 Apr 2013.

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Tue, 09 Apr 2013 #9
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Katy A wrote:
I don't know whether you are laughing at me or with me, Rick, but it is good that someone here is laughing anyway :)

Neither... it is the old you/them sameness that drives the division..to be a little clearer..ask the question what is the difference between you Krishnamurtian's/and them..none both caught in the illusion of duality..hence the LOL:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Tue, 09 Apr 2013 #10
Thumb_snapshot_20130606 john Campbell Canada 535 posts in this forum Offline

Katy A wrote:
food

A person whose conscience is clear does not need another's 'pity'.

Well put katy,beware of male donkeys./j

“The stars up close to the moon were pale; they got brighter and braver the farther they got out of the circle of light ruled by the giant moon”
? Ken Kesey, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest

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Tue, 09 Apr 2013 #11
Thumb_dsci0664 George Lanroh United States 200 posts in this forum Offline

john Campbell wrote:
The stars up close to the moon were pale; they got brighter and braver the farther they got out of the circle of light ruled by the giant moon”
? Ken Kesey, One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest

Strange your mention of one flew over the cuckoo's nest because I was already writing this note below when I seen your mention.

I am not sure, I could be way off but Paul and Katy share some traits. Long responses, lots of links to other sites, strange avatars that change often, being banned or leaving and coming back again and again. Im not sure but I am beginning to think I myself must be a patient in the movie one flew over the cuckoo's nest. I am sorry if I am in error but so much here seems bizarre.

The only difference between a patient in a mental hospital and a free man/woman is one says he is God and the other that we are all God.

There is no other.

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Tue, 09 Apr 2013 #12
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Katy A wrote:
I have never been banned (apart from Rick based on a false belief on his part)

Which you,was suspended..not banned? Based in part..but not completely on behaviors which were very much similar to Chafia/O.M. and so on..based on observation..Neither the current incarnation of you..nor Nick/Lidio/Arthur? are suspended from Simply. Only one person is currently suspended from Simply..and shall remain as such!:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Tue, 09 Apr 2013 #13
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Katy A wrote:
.The other person is not me at the moment :)

Lets go over this again you say.."You Krishnamurtian's as opposed to?Yet yo say"The other person is not me"?All this begs the question why you asked Eve about the use of the term "Them"So both are cases of opposites yes..which is dualism ..yes..so is conflict..Bingo!:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Tue, 09 Apr 2013 #14
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Katy A wrote:
Good...how much is your rejoining fee for people called Katy?:)

An opened mind..LOL:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Tue, 09 Apr 2013 #15
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Katy A wrote:
No, my question for Eve was picking up on her saying 'them' to mean the people who belonged in the boxes she named as follows...

Eve G. wrote:

there were plenty of unbalanced people and I have seen them being treated firmly.

And how is that any different than say"You Krisnamurtian's? It is the same attitude:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Tue, 09 Apr 2013 #16
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Katy A wrote:
I think I (mostly) see your point, Rick...you are seeing that I was talking to a grouping of people. However, you know, too, why I put it like that. I couldn't say 'us' Krishnamurtians since I do/did not belong to the 'branch' that called me such a horrible name. In fact, Dean was separating me off as a 'them' by labelling me, wasn't he?

Ask Dean? Thing is labelling it's self is something to look at no matter who does it..including addressing people as Believer,as the author of this thread does..true?")

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Tue, 09 Apr 2013 #17
Thumb_snapshot_20130606 john Campbell Canada 535 posts in this forum Offline

Katy A wrote:
In fact

All of this furore

What's the jackanory

j...Hmm,The furore, maybe, is when dialogue fails, or wobbles about,

especially when beliefs are threatened.Each side will

defend its position which can result in rage.If emotionalism

could be held at bay, many people would gain ,and some indeed do,

despite it all. There are others however who dare not even listen,

or perhaps cannot,thus ,lash out randomly.

The Jackanory is for the Cockney to rhyme about'
are you from that part of town?

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Tue, 09 Apr 2013 #18
Thumb_stringio Arthur Landon United States 146 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Katy A wrote:
I respect that those who have read K's teachings over a longer period time know the finer points better than I do.

Don't worry, Katy, there are no "finer points", just fuzzier ones.

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Tue, 09 Apr 2013 #19
Thumb_snapshot_20130606 john Campbell Canada 535 posts in this forum Offline

Katy A wrote:
what's the story

The Jackanory is for the Cockney to rhyme about'

Thanks for telling me this, John. I looked it up and it seems that it might also mean 'what's the story'

j...Yep,I think you are right, I believe it is a children's storyline using a Cockney accent and it means Jackanory,but I have never seen it.

I see, too, how as soon as one jumps to the defence of another, a 'side' is taken..there does not seem to be a way around this.

j..Seems in be in our nature. Be it the Bibles,Korans,the Mr.K’s teachings etc.I’ve read them all but not as a serious student,there seems to be a great comfort for some in holding fast to their belief ,whatever the choice may be,and this is quite understandable,seeing the complexities of life where most of ones energies or all of it is spent on simple survival and a faint hope /belief, for a reason to be ,holds the soul together. For those of us with time and energy to kick around,as Churchill said:”better to jaw,jaw,jaw than to war,war,war. So keep on a talking until we grow out of it ,which is still possible.

Across the lines who

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Tue, 09 Apr 2013 #20
Thumb_img_7089_copy Eve G. Indonesia 1570 posts in this forum Offline

Katy A wrote:
'Them' ?

Katy A, you are Paul D and a few other of the images that went on a melt down few months ago. What is the state of a mind who does this for years, playing with people sympathies? The patterns goes that now you will do something totally predictable and then delete your image to come up with a new avatar.

You need help.

The nature of the change from disorder is silence.

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Tue, 09 Apr 2013 #21
Thumb_img_7089_copy Eve G. Indonesia 1570 posts in this forum Offline

Katy A wrote:
Taking a break...back later. Katy

This is predictable and then the melt down and then coming back with Katy Zzzzz.

Put it to rest Paul we are on to you. You and Arthur can collaborate all you want but sooner or later you are found out because the content and style is the same. Mostly the intent.

Anyone who starts by deception is basically deciding themselves.

Get help.

The nature of the change from disorder is silence.

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Wed, 10 Apr 2013 #22
Thumb_img_7089_copy Eve G. Indonesia 1570 posts in this forum Offline

Katy A wrote:
Please try to let go of your anger, Eve.

Sadness not anger. For you and for those you play with.

The nature of the change from disorder is silence.

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Wed, 10 Apr 2013 #23
Thumb_beautiful-nature-wallpaper pavani rao India 541 posts in this forum Offline

Eve G. wrote:
you have known the history behind the story and the pains Jack took in order to sort things out with LL, Nick, Arthur....you would have a better understanding. You simply don't know and we will not tell you.

Yes Eve we never change , nor we have the ability to see change in others . K means only endless discussions , arguments  and perhaps we are very fond of indulging / listening to our own voices . Very simple concept of looking at images of people / ourselves  of past times and moving on ...  never occurs to us . 

Eve G. wrote:
this maybe a cultural difference

Cultural difference ... Yes our culture and in fact cultures all over the world teaches us compassion . We need not go that far to K to know about that word . In our mythological books in our  child hood we were taught causing violence and harm to others start with the words one uses for the others  and unnecessary ill  feelings one harbors for others is the most rigorous form of violence . 

Well that may be because we are basically violent and fragmented  by nature and so insensitive of what / how we are writing ... As you have mentioned in faceless form of communication on Internet  where what we write is what represents us ... ( still we write whatever we feel like not bothering to see it's impact on ourselves )

Eve G. wrote:
On this forum you are writing to people who are drug users, alcohol users, Psychotropic medicated individuals etc...

Well I'm neither scared nor abhor people who suffer from various  abuses , they are at least not harmful of others except to themselves .  And neither I'm interested in knowing previous histories of people ( I have had enough people to concern about on my shoulders ) 

Well I may not have travelled like you but grant me some wisdom to be able to see who is who and where they  are coming from ...  
( thanks for trying to act my elder sister :) 

This post was last updated by pavani rao Wed, 10 Apr 2013.

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Wed, 10 Apr 2013 #24
Thumb_img_7089_copy Eve G. Indonesia 1570 posts in this forum Offline

pavani rao wrote:
Yes Eve we never change , nor we have the ability to see change in others . K means only endless discussions , arguments  and perhaps we are very fond of indulging / listening to our own voices . Very simple concept of looking at images of people / ourselves  of past times and moving on ...  never occurs to us . 

No this is not it at all :). George especially kept on saying lets observe for change. Simply look at the facts, did you see any change? Have you really read all the insults and mocking or you are being impervious to all of this and are simply closing your eyes and insisting?

It is not about the PAST it is about the PRESENT. The most recent past. Are you saying you are incapable of seeing past the image? Really? I am afraid it is you who are being manipulated by an image of something that does not exist and perhaps finding it difficult to observe with in yourself as I have been fooled by Katy. Not once but several times. I have been there before and chances are will be there again because I do live with an open heart and I do trust.

pavani rao wrote:
Well that may be because we are basically violent and fragmented  by nature and so insensitive of what / how we are writing ... As you have mentioned in faceless form of communication on Internet  where what we write is what represents us ... ( still we write whatever we feel like not bothering to see it's impact on ourselves )

Pav, do you know the scope of verbal and emotional violence? Comparing one child to another which happens in all schools also in India, verbal violence in gesture and word. Is there any escape of it?

If one is familiar with K's writings, one must know the image is the only thing hurt in words. This is what we need to teach children and adults not to create images, not to hurt others and MOSTLY NOT BE HURT.

It is hurt that perpetuates hurt. Not kindness and compassion. We are all hurt and therefore violent and all this talk about compassion and kindness is empty of meaning because we are HURT and fragmented....we suffer. The hurt is VIOLENCE the two are one and the same.

pavani rao wrote:
Well I'm neither scared nor abhor people who suffer from various  abuses , they are at least not harmful of others except to themselves .  And neither I'm interested in knowing previous histories of people ( I have had enough people to concern about on my shoulders ) 

Fear did not enter my mind, reason is more what I was taking about. And hurt people, who are all of us are violent. This is simply a fact. You can do the research. In the case of alcohol and drugs, there is not one there you can reach, there is only the mind altering drug. In that change is impossible.

I am not 'my sisters keeper' and you have totally misunderstood my intent and what is happening here. I have never implied that you have no wisdom, quite the contrary, wisdom has nothing to do with education or travel and I have seen you reply with plenty of wisdom....you just don't understand that is all :)

I have attempted to explain and I have obviously failed. Oh well :)

The nature of the change from disorder is silence.

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Wed, 10 Apr 2013 #25
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5663 posts in this forum Offline

Arthur Landon wrote:
It's a good thing you don't take your own advice, Jack, or you wouldn't have replied to me. Your desire for more "garbage" is duly noted and I will try to serve it up to you the way you like it.

Guess I'm not the only one who got tired of your garbage. Stay away this time Nick. Find something else to do with your life while there still may be a chance to save what is left of your sanity.

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Wed, 10 Apr 2013 #26
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5663 posts in this forum Offline

pavani rao wrote:
Do we ever come out of the images we have of people or of ourselves and see things in complete objectivity , compassionately and dispassionately ... ? Because for people like me that's again what constitute exploring and inquiring is all about .

Really, you need to ask yourself these questions. It seems obvious to me and maybe to others as well that your own objectivity is in question. How can anyone possibly not see Nick, Lidlo, Arthur for what he really is?

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Wed, 10 Apr 2013 #27
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5663 posts in this forum Offline

Eve G. wrote:
On this forum you are writing to people who are drug users, alcohol users, Psychotropic medicated individuals etc...

This is not group therapy and it is dangerous to assume it is. At the talks with K there were plenty of unbalanced people and I have seen them being treated firmly.

Yes, I think you have expressed some of the problems that plague this forum fairly well. Actually, it gave me pause. I probably should consider the mental state of people who post here before I respond to them. I don't want to push anyone over the edge but the frustration of constantly being blasted by the same few people saying the same crap gets to be too much some times.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Wed, 10 Apr 2013.

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Wed, 10 Apr 2013 #28
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5663 posts in this forum Offline

john Campbell wrote:
The Jackanory is for the Cockney to rhyme about'
are you from that part of town?

May I suggest that if you have something to say then just say it plainly. Be a man and don't used this confused rambling of words to try to express yourself.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Wed, 10 Apr 2013.

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Wed, 10 Apr 2013 #29
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Eve G. wrote:
If one is familiar with K's writings, one must know the image is the only thing hurt in words. This is what we need to teach children and adults not to create images, not to hurt others and MOSTLY NOT BE HURT.

It is hurt that perpetuates hurt. Not kindness and compassion. We are all hurt and therefore violent and all this talk about compassion and kindness is empty of meaning because we are HURT and fragmented....we suffer. The hurt is VIOLENCE the two are one and the same.

:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Wed, 10 Apr 2013 #30
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Eve G. wrote:
Put it to rest Paul we are on to you. You and Arthur can collaborate all you want but sooner or later you are found out because the content and style is the same. Mostly the intent.

Yes! Well maybe some of the newer posters don't know that deception was/is a trademark of G.I. Gurdjieff..as well as a baseless amount of self confidence...bordering on pseudo intellectual arrogance.one very real possibility is that there is a cell (grouping) of adherents to this person trolling this site? If one takes the trouble to google the name..and look at the bio of this person.and some overview of the so called fourth way..it may help shed some light on the "Why" of this whole thing!:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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