Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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The Mistakes of Krishnamurti


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Wed, 07 Nov 2012 #1
Thumb_2553 Eric Mixi Japan 38 posts in this forum Offline

Hi everyone!

These are my honest thoughts. Actually, I think I'm qualified to share my thoughts. Forty years ago, at age 15 I enrolled at BP in England and lived there for two years, much of that time with K. My whole life was the teachings and being with K and trying to find out what life is and the mystery of the universe, and also being together with something wonderful. I should write about it someday. These are my feelings.

Observing and awareness stultifies life. When you love something you don't observe as an object, you just love being together. Like the book Flow explains.

Seeing without an image and memory sounds like it makes sense, but it ends up making the world into an object. An object is and enemy, a duty, a talk, a homework assignment, a problem. Don't try to polish your mirror in order to see a separate object more clearly. That just strengthens a subject-object split. Life then becomes a task.

Words like absolutely, totally, and so on are a signal that someone is drawing sharp lines. I read a book, it said the sharp line drawers and stingy, racially prejudice, cold and so on. Artists don't use those words. National socialists and tyrants do.

Don't observe your thoughts. That's like observing letters instead of the meaning of what you read. Legs are for walking and thoughts for thinking. They're good. If you observe your legs, you won't walk or run correctly. Ask a centipede.

Don't observe people. People aren't objects. That's like trying to understand music by observing a thin, round CD. You can't stare at a CD and understand music. And you can't look at a person and understand them. A person isn't a separate thing anyways. People come up in interacting and talking an laughing together, and you can't divide where you start and the other stops. Thinking is a joint effort. But K makes a sharp line and says you have to have no thoughts, memories or images to observe the object call other people. That's very counterproductive and creates a strict, sharp fascist.

Don't look for truth. Truth is one of the worst words. To be true means to compare one thing to something else. For example compare something with the physical world, and if it's in line you call it real. Comparing with an objective standard. When you love something you don't care if it's in line with some objective standard, you just love it. Comparing is to take all the worth out of something.

It's late at night, and these are just random, but I wanted to say them. I could of course be wrong, but those are things I've noticed through actual experience, for what it's worth.

Actually, K had severe headaches where he called for his mother and so on throughout his life, I believe. I think splitting the world into the observer and an outside world which must be observed silently without thought or memory, and throwing in words like absolutely and totally in, would cause severe headaches to anyone.

Also, if someone wants to do some kind of spiritual like practice, I would keep a dream diary and get good a lucid dreaming. Then you can see what the waking mind and see how limited it is, by being able to see it from the standpoint of the richer dreaming mind. That's a good type of awareness. A lot better than the awareness that the waking mind cultivates.

A devotee ones told me her guru said to be passively aware of the ringing in her ears which is always there in the background. So she was passively aware. That's so harmful. It gets in the way of life. The mind can't do two things at the same time. It can't live a happy life and listen to the ringing.

Being passively aware of thoughts is the same. It just creates a false me-other dichotomy and makes happy life into a tasks where you have to see a separate object without thoughts. I hope a child would never be subject to that kind of idea. It would be so bad for growing up carefree, friendly and happy.

Those are my stream of consciousness bits! I won't re-read this before posting so if I said something strange I'll be happy to correct! I could be wrong but that's the way things have seemed to me! ^_)

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Wed, 07 Nov 2012 #2
Thumb_2553 Eric Mixi Japan 38 posts in this forum Offline

And sorry about the title, I don't like it or anything negative like that but just wanted to make it was eye catching so someone might read it... ^_)

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Wed, 07 Nov 2012 #3
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

Eric Mixi wrote:
Hi everyone!

Hi Eric

Nice to read your honest words.Only thing to add, It is K misunderstood, not mistakes of K.

I don't know

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Wed, 07 Nov 2012 #4
Thumb_2553 Eric Mixi Japan 38 posts in this forum Offline

Hi Dev, Maybe so, that could be the case in part! Somehow, though, for example when K talks about no subject-object division, the effect of what he says seems paradoxically to be to strengthen that division. Because it makes people think the world is a separate object that has to been seen totally and absolutely correctly by totally having no thought or memory or image. That makes life into a dreadful homework assignment and a problem. When you could just forget all about that and just have fun, and you'd be having so much fun you wouldn't even think where a subject ends and object begins. Just look at the Obama victory speech video on Youtube. Everyone is so happy they're all sharing their hopes for the future and truly happy and no one is thinking there's an object and I have to be totally silent in order to observe is as it is without an image. That would make everything into a static, lifeless object. They're just having fun, and being happy and sharing something wonderful together.

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Wed, 07 Nov 2012 #5
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

It happens when K become method, for 60 years he speaks, different words, trying to point one thing, but mind works in it's usual manner, it arrange these words in a system, a to do list, but well, it doesn't work, it can't work, K was trying to do a very very difficult task, with a rare chance of success, to convey something beyond the thought.

I don't know

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Wed, 07 Nov 2012 #6
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

Eric Mixi wrote:
Hi Dev

:), sorry to disappoint you but, I am not Dev, the big one, I am an almost negligible being, dhirendra.

I don't know

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Wed, 07 Nov 2012 #7
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

I understand and agree with your feeling, will talk later if possible in this matter.

I don't know

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Wed, 07 Nov 2012 #8
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Eric Mixi wrote:
when K talks about no subject-object division, the effect of what he says seems paradoxically to be to strengthen that division. Because it makes people think the world is a separate object that has to been seen totally and absolutely correctly by totally having no thought or memory or image. That makes life into a dreadful homework assignment and a problem.

I can't imagine a fifteen year old responding positively to Krishnamurti's teaching. I think one has to have reached a certain stage of cognitive development to take an interest in what he was saying.

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Wed, 07 Nov 2012 #9
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 700 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Eric Mixi wrote:
It's late at night, and these are just random

Hi Eric, this has nothing to do with anything but I am just curious: where in the US could it be late at night right now ?

This post was last updated by B Teulada (account deleted) Wed, 07 Nov 2012.

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Wed, 07 Nov 2012 #10
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 700 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Eric Mixi wrote:
I could be wrong but that's the way things have seemed to me! ^_)

by the way Eric, grand to have you with us. You sound like one carefree soul.

Nice to see that K, or no K, you are happy and easy-going. Possibly you did not need K's advice in the first place ? Most of us do, only we seem to misunderstand every single word he said , he!

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Wed, 07 Nov 2012 #11
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 700 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
I am an almost negligible being, dhirendra.

he he ! too self-effacing Dhi, you don't do yourself justice :-)

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Wed, 07 Nov 2012 #12
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

B Teulada wrote:
I am just curious: where in the US could it be late at night right now ?

:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Wed, 07 Nov 2012 #13
Thumb_stringio Dean R. Smith Canada 1145 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
It happens when K become method, for 60 years he speaks, different words, trying to point one thing, but mind works in it's usual manner, it arrange these words in a system, a to do list, but well, it doesn't work, it can't work, K was trying to do a very very difficult task, with a rare chance of success, to convey something beyond the thought.

Very nicely put.

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

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Wed, 07 Nov 2012 #14
Thumb_2553 Eric Mixi Japan 38 posts in this forum Offline

B Teulada wrote:
Hi Eric, this has nothing to do with anything but I am just curious: where in the US could it be late at night right now ?

I'm in Japan. I thought I'd just peak in completely incognito yesterday and tried to make myself as untraceable as possible. I went to edit today to come straight but there's no where to edit location. ...

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Wed, 07 Nov 2012 #15
Thumb_2553 Eric Mixi Japan 38 posts in this forum Offline

dhirendra singh wrote:
:), sorry to disappoint you but, I am not Dev, the big one, I am an almost negligible being, dhirendra.

woops. thanks dhirendra!

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Wed, 07 Nov 2012 #16
Thumb_2553 Eric Mixi Japan 38 posts in this forum Offline

lidlo lady wrote:
I can't imagine a fifteen year old responding positively to Krishnamurti's teaching. I think one has to have reached a certain stage of cognitive development to take an interest in what he was saying.

i was precocious! ^_) it's 1:10 am good night.

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Wed, 07 Nov 2012 #17
Thumb_2553 Eric Mixi Japan 38 posts in this forum Offline

B Teulada wrote:
by the way Eric, grand to have you with us. You sound like one carefree soul.

Nice to see that K, or no K, you are happy and easy-going. Possibly you did not need K's advice in the first place ? Most of us do, only we seem to misunderstand every single word he said , he!

actually, that's what i want to be. actually i'm a bundle of nerves and fears and dissatisfactions and unbearable suffering and anguish. it's 1:15am not and i have to wake up at 7am something to go to a job where my boss will get angry and i might be dismissed and lose my job and my life savings vanish at age 56 and not have the energy to pick myself up. and tomorrow i have to work ten hours without having slept and won't be able to contentrate and every minutes with be unbearable torture. just since you asked. ^_)/

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Wed, 07 Nov 2012 #18
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
K was trying to do a very very difficult task, with a rare chance of success, to convey something beyond the thought.

And by his own admission, he failed. Krishnamurti said, at the end of his life, that no one understood what he was talking about; that no one got it.

Now, with the author dead, everyone can claim to understand what The Teaching was about because he's not here to say they don't.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #19
Thumb_2553 Eric Mixi Japan 38 posts in this forum Offline

B Teulada wrote:
holy cow...
come to Portugal. we have much to talk about. i am obsessed with my work (rather, my work is obsessed with me) and i hate it too.

I thought Portugal was heaven! Yeah, would love to talk, thanks! ^_)/

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #20
Thumb_stringio randal patrick United States 3155 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

dhirendra singh wrote:
I am not Dev, the big one, I am an almost negligible being, dhirendra.

But you will always be "the big one" in our hearts.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #21
Thumb_stringio randal patrick United States 3155 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

lidlo lady wrote:
Now, with the author dead, everyone can claim to understand what The Teaching was about because he's not here to say they don't.

You're worse than a K-parrot, you are a Randal parrot!

This post was last updated by randal patrick (account deleted) Thu, 08 Nov 2012.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #22
Thumb_stringio randal patrick United States 3155 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Eric Mixi wrote:
actually, that's what i want to be. actually i'm a bundle of nerves and fears and dissatisfactions and unbearable suffering and anguish. it's 1:15am not and i have to wake up at 7am something to go to a job where my boss will get angry and i might be dismissed and lose my job and my life savings vanish at age 56 and not have the energy to pick myself up. and tomorrow i have to work ten hours without having slept and won't be able to contentrate and every minutes with be unbearable torture. just since you asked. ^_)/

Maybe if you are lucky you can be like many of us in the future, unemployed. Then, you won't have to worry about any of that stuff.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #23
Thumb_stringio randal patrick United States 3155 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

B Teulada wrote:
You sound like one carefree soul.

He in fact, sounds twisted.

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Fri, 09 Nov 2012 #24
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

Eric Mixi wrote:
actually, that's what i want to be. actually i'm a bundle of nerves and fears and dissatisfactions and unbearable suffering and anguish. it's 1:15am not and i have to wake up at 7am something to go to a job where my boss will get angry and i might be dismissed and lose my job and my life savings vanish at age 56 and not have the energy to pick myself up. and tomorrow i have to work ten hours without having slept and won't be able to contentrate and every minutes with be unbearable torture. just since you asked. ^_)/

B Teulada wrote:
by the way Eric, grand to have you with us. You sound like one carefree soul.

Really? You think he sounds like a "carefree soul"? Good call B Teulada.

It seems to me if he was "carefree" he would go into his place of employment and tell his boss to go f**k himself and find another job. The job is killing him. That is if this guy is for real which I seriously doubt.

This post was last updated by Jack Pine Fri, 09 Nov 2012.

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Fri, 09 Nov 2012 #25
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

randal patrick wrote:
B Teulada wrote:
You sound like one carefree soul.

He in fact, sounds twisted.

Haven't you noticed how B likes to flirt with about half of the new guys who come onto this forum?

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Fri, 09 Nov 2012 #26
Thumb_snapshot_20130606 john Campbell Canada 535 posts in this forum Offline

Eric Mixi wrote:
actually i'm a bundle of nerves and fears and dissatisfactions and unbearable suffering and anguish.

See a head Doctor Eric,you've been screwed left,right and center.Its time for a reality check.Good luck.

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Fri, 09 Nov 2012 #27
Thumb_snapshot_20130606 john Campbell Canada 535 posts in this forum Offline

Eric Mixi wrote:
actually i'm a bundle of nerves and fears and dissatisfactions and unbearable suffering and anguish.

See a head Doctor Eric,you've been screwed left,right and center.Its time for a reality check.Good luck.

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Fri, 09 Nov 2012 #28
Thumb_2553 Eric Mixi Japan 38 posts in this forum Offline

john Campbell wrote:
See a head Doctor Eric,you've been screwed left,right and center

Hi John, Thanks! I gave you a recommendation. ^)
btw, this board is erasing the right eyeball of my smilies. I'll ask my therapist about that too. ^
)

This post was last updated by Eric Mixi Fri, 09 Nov 2012.

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Fri, 09 Nov 2012 #29
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 700 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
Really? You think he sounds like a "carefree soul"? Good call B Teulada.

uh oh .... actually it seems i spoke too early. oh well. as LL says, i am naive and gullible. I am the one that sees the 'new kid on the block' and runs to share toys and candies... apparently you cannot do it ... even here ... isn't it sad ?

Jack Pine wrote:
That is if this guy is for real which I seriously doubt.

eh, i doubt that too now.

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Fri, 09 Nov 2012 #30
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 700 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
Haven't you noticed how B likes to flirt with about half of the new guys who come onto this forum?

ah, should i resent that? not sure any more. are you serious Jack? what you call flirty i'd call friendly. incidentally, is there a difference? maybe we call it 'flirtatious' when done with the opposite sex and 'friendly' when done with the same sex?

I was extremely frindly with Patricia and Pavani right from the start. If they turned out to be Alpha males both of them, would that friendliness suddenly transmute into flirtatiousness ?

Finally, are you sure i am a woman? how do we know which sex everybody else is here anyway?

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