Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Krishnamurti on Listening


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Tue, 06 Nov 2012 #1
Thumb_2553 Eric Mixi Japan 38 posts in this forum Offline

Has anyone seen this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn5tPof7NmU&amp...

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Tue, 06 Nov 2012 #2
Thumb_stringio G M Norway 81 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

As the saying goes,

"Your perception of me, is a reflection of you;

And my reaction to you,is an awareness of me."

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Tue, 06 Nov 2012 #3
Thumb_img_7089_copy Eve G. Indonesia 1570 posts in this forum Offline

G M wrote:
As the saying goes,

"Your perception of me, is a reflection of you;

And my reaction to you,is an awareness of me."

Thank you! I have never seen this saying, but it is awesome :)

The nature of the change from disorder is silence.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #4
Thumb_2553 Eric Mixi Japan 38 posts in this forum Offline

I wrote a bunch of comments under the video in a late night spasm and spewed out years of pent up vitrol. Please forgive.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #5
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Eric's youtube comments:

"Btw, I went to BP a long, long? time ago, and always sat at K's lunch table for the 3 months he was there each year. He didn't know the childrens' names and didn't even say hi if he passed them in the hall. He never came out to chat except for twice a week talks when he told everyone to shut up, spat out "it's your life" and walked off in disgust. Worst educator in the world. No interaction! To him, people and the world are cold objects, that have to be observed clearly without thought or memory."
cheerfulerik 22 hours ago

"And poor children, being cut off like that and snapped at and called selfish. They have to leave their parents, be alone at the school, and then K looks at the child and calls her selfish in front of everyone because she? tried to add her own view during a pause. Doesn't he realize how that hurts a child's heart? When they're glowing up like that? It's the worst education I've ever seen."
cheerfulerik 22 hours ago

"Krishnamurti is the worst listener I've ever seen. The students doubt, think, make an effort to say? their thoughts and have an active, honest back and forth discussion. Krishnamurti, though, snaps and cuts them off each time they try to express and honest thought. The children try to discuss and he cuts them off and says "Just listen!" "Listen" to K means "listen to K." What a tyrant. It's painful to watch such disrespect, coldness and cruelty."
cheerfulerik 22 hours ago

I don't know how many people in this forum had any personal contact with Krishnamurti, but for those who've formed images of him based on his words, your memories of the man, Eric, are a valuable counterpoint.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #6
Thumb_2553 Eric Mixi Japan 38 posts in this forum Offline

Hi lidlo lady,
But I just mainly looked at him. Same as seeing a video, just more three d. Doesn't make me an expert or anything. You can learn more about him by looking at his videos. I just saw him wandering around mainly and walking his dog and eating and talking at lunch with adults and so on. And my comments above are embellished and dramatized for effect. He was probably nice. I was just hurt a little bit. I was there for two years, and left my brother and sisters in California when they were growing up and needed their older brother, and left them to find truth and then he comes for meetings and scold and cuts off and says "it's your life" and walks away. And never talks with us or sits together at the fireplace and hangs out and chats or anything. He never called us by name or said hi. He had one or two favorites who he talked to, but never said hi to the rest. Maybe my hurt is embellishing some coincidences and making a drama out of it, but that's what I thought when I wrote the above. When I wrote it, I never thought I'd have to talk about it with anyone, I just threw it up there to see if there would be any comments so I could go back and forth and say, well it actually maybe wasn't that bad later on... Now I feel guilty about writing it. I hate saying anything negative about anything. When someone's famous people think they can say anything, and even say things they'd never say to an actual person. When I joined this board and wrote my other comment, I didn't know anyone here, and was writing to just a board. But now I've chatted and see there are actual people and individuals and feel bad about my other comment too. I just want everyone to be happy. I don't want to hurt anyone. I hurt my family by leaving them to go off to the school in search of truth. I left actual people and children. Now I hate truth. ; _ ; It made me hurt an actual person, it made me hurt the heart of a child and I can't go back and fix it.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #7
Thumb_img_0244 Jack Pine United States 5755 posts in this forum Offline

lidlo lady wrote:
I don't know how many people in this forum had any personal contact with Krishnamurti, but for those who've formed images of him based on his words, your memories of the man, Eric, are a valuable counterpoint.

Or a pile of crap from the memories of a spoiled kid who now has an agenda. Or maybe he didn't know K at all. Who knows who cares. You hear testimony from someone you don't know and you believe it. Why? Because it fits in nicely with your own predjudices? I was around K on and off for several years and I didn't see anything like what "Eric" describes.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #8
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Eric Mixi wrote:
But now I've chatted and see there are actual people and individuals and feel bad about my other comment too.

They have their images of K and they don't want those images tarnished. Don't apologize for being honest. People can't handle the truth so it's always risky to speak it, but it's worse to mince your words or stuff them for the sake of cherished beliefs.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #9
Thumb_2553 Eric Mixi Japan 38 posts in this forum Offline

Jack Pine wrote:
Or a pile of crap from the memories of a spoiled kid who now has an agenda.

Gee, I dramatized my point through poetry. And now poetry came back to me!

I can only say my own standpoint. And when I put things in words it gets exaggerated and may only show one angle but I just have to try my best.

He would give talks and stare at us like objects, probably without any thought or memory for what that's worth, and say words like idiotic, stupid, selfish, worthless, and then words like absolutely, totally, completely, and then stand up from his chair slowly and walk off and go back to his room never to engage, chat, say hi, smile, sit together, walk together or anything like that again.

Look at the video! I saw it about twenty times, which was was easy since I made it. You can see what I'm talking about. It's there on the screen. I showed my wife last night, and she has no interest in spiritual topics, and her jaw dropped in disbelief. The children tried to talk and he said Just listen! Careful careful! No! Ah, ah, ah! and cut them all off. It's certainly not a two way discussion. It's a listen quietly to me session.

And then the poor girl reaches into her heart and says "I feel insecure..." and key snaps at her and then calls another poor girl who has probably left her parents to be at Rishi Valley selfish. That can stick and harm someone. Words can hurt and make a scar. How could he do that to a child?

David Bohm was often at the school. Apparently, from what I read online later, K was sharp to him too, and he fell into depression so deep he had to get electroshock treatment. Look at the results. That's usually not what happens if you've been talking to a fun, warm friend for years. It wasn't just children he was sharp to.

If a child came to me and said "Eric, I have an honest thought, I'm embarrassed to say this but I feel insecure and afraid at times..." I wouldn't cut her off and say No. No. and tell her Just listen to me, and say "You're selfish. You're just selfish" and then later on say "By the way, what about dying? Ever thought about dying?" That's the title of the original video! "It doesn't matter if you die for it".

He tells the children Shut up shut up, just listen to me, you're selfish. And then pauses and looks at the children and say By the way, ever though about dying?

That's my Cliff Notes summary for what it's worth! ^_)

This post was last updated by Eric Mixi Thu, 08 Nov 2012.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #10
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1929 posts in this forum Offline

The video you posted above is heavily edited. K words are deleted constantly.

Why? For some special effect?

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #11
Thumb_2553 Eric Mixi Japan 38 posts in this forum Offline

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
The video you posted above is heavily edited. K words are deleted constantly.

Why? For some special effect?

Hi Patricia, You're in Australia, same time zone as Japan. ^_)

Yeah, I added all the interruptions together in one long series of interruptions. No, No, Careful careful, Don't answer so quickly, No I'm not going to listen, You're selfish, Ah Ah Ah, No sir.

It really helped me to understand what kind of interrupting he does, but sticking them together! It helped me to see the interruption pattern. Yes, so it was for that effect. ^_)

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #12
Thumb_patricia_may_2014_reduced_ Patricia Hemingway Australia 1929 posts in this forum Offline

And it demonstrates clearly that whoever it was who put that segment together is quite clearly not at all interested in listening. Which is K's whole point - no?

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #13
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 700 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

the "death to Krishnamurti" squad is frothing at the mouth...

and the more the squad squirms, the more desperately pointless and rampant the animosity becomes, the deeper K's words sink in, because just watching this squalid show is enlightening in itself

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #14
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 700 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
Who knows who cares

Yes, that's basically it.

do we even need to address this kind of stuff? i wonder. if we are environmentally aware at home and in our daily lives and save electricity, water, etc, why oh why waste so much time and precious living energy trying to recycle what is clearly unrecyclable rubbish into any kind of coherent thread? It cannot be done. But we can clearly stop adding to it.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #15
Thumb_2553 Eric Mixi Japan 38 posts in this forum Offline

Patricia Hemingway wrote:
And it demonstrates clearly that whoever it was who put that segment together is quite clearly not at all interested in listening. Which is K's whole point - no?

It was me who put the segment together. ^_) smile

Btw, below is the gist (not actual quotes) of the video after having watched it twenty times.

Original title: "It doesn't matter if you die for it"
(Talk to Rishi Valley children)

-- Begin video --

Krishnamurti speaks:

+_+) What's important is to OBSERVE, QUESTION, DOUBT, LISTEN. Do you follow me sirs?

^) ^) "") ^) Yes Krishnaji!

+_+) Do you have any questions, sirs?

^_) Yes, Krishnaji. I sometimes feel insecur...

+o+)/ Are you just speaking from what you have heard? Or are you just talking.

^_) Yes, it' real. I feel insecur...

+o+)/ No, no! I won't listen! ... Any other questions, sirs?

^_) Yes, Krishnaji, I...

+o+)/ Careful, careful! ... Any others?

^_) Yes, I...

+o+)/ Ah ah ah ah!! ... Any other questions?

"_") I...

+o+)/ Ah ah ah!! Don't answer so quickly! Think!!

+_+) What is fear?

^_) Fear is when I think about... about... about... um... about...

"_") ...about something unsure?

+o+)/ You didn't let him finish! Do you know what he said? Do you? No you don't. It's because you didn't listen. You've only thinking about what you want to say. That's selfishness!

+_+) Any other questions, sirs? ...

^_) Yes, I...

+o+)/ Careful, careful! ... Oh, this is too difficult for little boys. Okay, let's sit silently, sirs.

-- End of video --

This post was last updated by Eric Mixi Thu, 08 Nov 2012.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #16
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

B Teulada wrote:
do we even need to address this kind of stuff?

If by "this kind of stuff" you mean someone's actual experience of Krishnamurti, yes, of course. You've made a demi-god of a man you've never met, so why wouldn't you want to hear from someone who had an ongoing relationship with him? You can't get enough flattering K-stories from Mark Lee or Michael Kronen, but when someone whose experience differs from theirs speaks up, you can't wait to silence him.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #17
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Jack Pine wrote:
I was around K on and off for several years and I didn't see anything like what "Eric" describes.

You weren't fifteen years old. You were highly receptive to K's message. You can't rule out these two crucial factors.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #18
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

B Teulada wrote:
the "death to Krishnamurti" squad is frothing at the mouth...

and the more the squad squirms, the more desperately pointless and rampant the animosity becomes, the deeper K's words sink in, because just watching this squalid show is enlightening in itself

You have a tendency to dramatize. Krishnamurti is dead...it's his reputation you're concerned with.

Your phrase "squalid show" is an apt description of this so-called discussion forum.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #19
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

B Teulada wrote:
the "death to Krishnamurti" squad is frothing at the mouth...

Conspire to do murder ....!

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #20
Thumb_2495 Kara D. United States 182 posts in this forum Offline

He doesn't appear to be unkind really, but sort of a harried grandpa :)

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #21
Thumb_2495 Kara D. United States 182 posts in this forum Offline

Eric Mixi wrote:
David Bohm was often at the school. Apparently, from what I read online later, K was sharp to him too, and he fell into depression so deep he had to get electroshock treatment. Look at the results. That's usually not what happens if you've been talking to a fun, warm friend for years. It wasn't just children he was sharp to.

By all accounts K didn't know why his message wasn't getting through.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #22
Thumb_stringio lidlo lady United States 4003 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Kara D. wrote:
By all accounts K didn't know why his message wasn't getting through.

Now that K is dead, believers can imagine his message has gotten through to them because there's no one to tell them otherwise.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #23
Thumb_2495 Kara D. United States 182 posts in this forum Offline

lidlo lady wrote:
Now that K is dead, believers can imagine his message has gotten through to them because there's no one to tell them otherwise.

They might perhaps be more cautious, in light of David Bohm's assessment. It's not like he lacked the seriousness that K often said was a prerequisite.

This post was last updated by Kara D. Thu, 08 Nov 2012.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #24
Thumb_2495 Kara D. United States 182 posts in this forum Offline

Eric Mixi wrote:
I hurt my family by leaving them to go off to the school in search of truth. I left actual people and children. Now I hate truth. ; _ ; It made me hurt an actual person, it made me hurt the heart of a child and I can't go back and fix it.

Did you find any truth at Brockwood ParK?

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #25
Thumb_2553 Eric Mixi Japan 38 posts in this forum Offline

Actually, I just looked at part of the original video again, part 3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZU9IyDYzdg&...

It'a pretty good, actually, and K was nice to the students. ^_)/

I just realized that sticking together K's cutting people off and playing it in a row without the context is a little misleading.

Omg, I just watched part 4.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4ADeEd-CZc&...

It was so good. And he interrupted the children for a reason, since he was in the middle of making an important point.

Towards the end of part 4 a child says "But what's left when there are no images?" and K answers "Nothing!" and then says something like "Be nothing, and then you can live!" Omg, that sent shivers through my whole being. I think it's so true. The less there is of me, the more there is of everything. K is a god. Just in terms of that though maybe. I still think he's sometimes mean to people and doesn't realize how much his words can hurt them. But is one of the only people who says the things that he says which such strength and his whole being.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #26
Thumb_2553 Eric Mixi Japan 38 posts in this forum Offline

Kara D. wrote:
Did you find any truth at Brockwood ParK?

Hi Kara, I don't know. It messed me up in terms of adjusting to college and getting a job afterwards because I was always super shy. At 11 I became a seventh day adventist after watching their show on tv, and i kept the saturday sabbath and read the bible by myself in my room after school. I listened to bach music and looked up at the sky and thought about god all day. Then at around 14 I bought a krishnamurti book and the stuff he said really affected me. At fifteen I said to my parents, gee I wish I could go there, just in jest, and they said if I wanted to I could go, so I wrote an application and Doris Pratt wrote me back and I got accepted. It was at the very end of when I was 15 or just turned 16. I thought K was god. I thought he had seen the mysteries of the universe, knew why the universe existed and could see everything and knew people completely. The first time I stood close to him I remember I was in the lunch or breakfast line and he was a couple people ahead of me and he turned back to look this way with his strange way of turning, and I almost fainted. I couldn't believe the person who knew everything was standing that close to me. There was only a few classes a week so every day I took walks in the pastures nearby and looked at the clouds and talked with sheep and picked berries. There was also a grove of trees at the school like a small forest. There was a small swimming pool and I woke up around 6am one day and took off my clothes and swam unclothed in it before everyone woke up. I liked a girl and thought about her all day but she liked another boy. There was a young girl Chittipoo who was the English teacher Shakuntala's daughter and she was only about six or seven and we used to take walks together. I loved her so much. I don't know where she is now. Alan Rolands the piano teacher introduced me to Douglas Harding, the man with no head, and I went to his house a lot on weekends. I went to college after that and everyone talked so quickly and things moved so fast I felt like I entered a different planet. I failed almost every job interview I took because I was too shy. I was really negative about K relying on memory, but reseeing the video just now, instead of just clipping out the interruptions, and seeing what he said about being nothing that really moved me. i have so many problems at work and so many pressures I'm almost going crazy. But at least I can try to help create happy relationships with people where everyone has fun and I can try to help make people happy and be happy that they know me and we became friends, and what Krishnamurti says about being nothing and not being afraid to be vulnerable and insecure really moved me. I'm confused now. My boss says I say anything just to try to make people happy and am wishywashy. It's so true. I criticized K and tried to paint him as bad as possible just to be able to clearly see the critical points that I was thinking about, but now I see that things are actually a little different than the picture I made. In other words, I have no idea what I'm talking about anymore. I still think there might be some negative points, though, like I wrote really quick in my other post. I'll try to watch a couple more videos. Good night! ^_)/

This post was last updated by Eric Mixi Thu, 08 Nov 2012.

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #27
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 700 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Eric Mixi wrote:
Hi

time to go to sleep "Eric". It's 3 am in Japan ....

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #28
Thumb_stringio Martin van der Tak Canada 75 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Eric Mixi wrote:
I was just hurt a little bit.

This is SELF.....

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #29
Thumb_stringio Martin van der Tak Canada 75 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Eric Mixi wrote:
He had one or two favorites who he talked to

This is comparison and jealousy

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Thu, 08 Nov 2012 #30
Thumb_stringio Martin van der Tak Canada 75 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Eric Mixi wrote:
and left my brother and sisters in California when they were growing up and needed their older brother, and left them

This is attachement

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