Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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I was just wondering...


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Thu, 25 Oct 2012 #1
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 886 posts in this forum Offline

Hello everybody,

I'm quite new to this forum. Although I haven't posted before, I have read quite a few messages on different message threads over the past few years. If I may, I'd like to share a few thoughts.

I haven't read or listened to Krishnamurti for a long time, but there was a time when I read many of his books and listened to him speak on recordings and DVDs. I also stayed for three days at Brockwood Park about 25 years ago. I have to say that I found Krishnamurti very communicative a lot of the time. What he was saying seemed deeply relevant and a sense of freshness or newness came across to me. I had the feeling that he "lived" his teachings and wasn't just explaining a complex theory. My impression of him was of a person who was extremely aware and acutely observant, Sometimes after reading or listening to him, I would find my own mind a little sharper, observing things more clearly.

I was wondering if it would be possible to have a similar quality of communication here on this forum. Perhaps this already exists. What I mean is a situation where we all approach a subject with an open mind and explore together to see if we can come across something fresh, new. I think that this kind of communication would be very worthwhile.

I'd be grateful to hear your views on this.

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Thu, 25 Oct 2012 #2
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 700 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Sean Hen wrote:
Sometimes after reading or listening to him, I would find my own mind a little sharper, observing things more clearly.

Hi Sean, welcome!

I second every single word of what you wrote in your post and particularly the above.

After all the reading and so on, I find him to have been a very, very, deeply sane creature, in the real sense of the word, healthy (mentally), whole.

Sean Hen wrote:
I was wondering if it would be possible to have a similar quality of communication here on this forum

At face value, i would say communication in which you are confined to written text on a screen is bound to be lacking a whole chunk of ... something.

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Thu, 25 Oct 2012 #3
Thumb_img_1496 Per . Sweden 10 posts in this forum Offline

Hi and welcome Sean!

Thank you for your contribution. Your longing is shared - in fact you point out the whole reason for coming here!

And I do agree with B.T; a whole chunk of "something" is missing as we cannot meet IRL. And still. It often amazes me how much of "that" that is still present here on the net as we meet in honest dialogue.. Sometimes you can really feel the energy of the person you are in dialogue with. Yes, fresh, alive and moving.. when you dare to partake that is.. So, welcome! Welcome once again!

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Fri, 26 Oct 2012 #4
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 886 posts in this forum Offline

Hi everybody,

Thanks a lot B.T. and Per for those messages which I found really interesting.

One subject that seems to have come up in this Forum quite a lot is whether reading Krishnamurti can help free us from our conditioning or if it simply adds another layer of conditioning to confuse us even more. I think this is an interesting area.

As we've already commented, it seems that there was something about Krishnamurti's whole demeanour, not just what he said, that led a lot of us to conclude that he had actually managed to leave his conditioning behind and live completely in the present moment. In many of the dialogues which I've read, he keeps pulling the focus of the exchange back to the here and now when the discussion becomes "intellectual" and theoretical. As Per and B.T. said, something is probably missing when we're not talking face-to-face but I still wonder if it's possible for us to move away from "the known" and have a discussion which has the same quality of freshness to it as when Krishnamurti was talking to people.

I'd be interested in reading any thoughts on this.

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Fri, 26 Oct 2012 #5
Thumb_stringio B Teulada Portugal 700 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Sean Hen wrote:
I still wonder if it's possible for us to move away from "the known" and have a discussion which has the same quality of freshness to it as when Krishnamurti was talking to people

Count me in.

I like your stile Sean, it's crystal clear and has substance, like every word counts.

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Fri, 26 Oct 2012 #6
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
As Per and B.T. said, something is probably missing when we're not talking face-to-face but I still wonder if it's possible for us to move away from "the known" and have a discussion which has the same quality of freshness to it as when Krishnamurti was talking to people.

Obviously that 'something', that touched each one of his listeners is / will be missing when thought tries to understand its movement instead actually see the same.

It is also not required to talk face-to-face to convey 'that'.It touched me when 'k' was an unknown to me when i, by chance, went through one of his writings.It touched me when i heard him first hand and touches me again whenever i read any of his commentaries/dialoges/conversations.It remains like the fresh wind that rejuvenates one by its perfume.

Simply let observation ride thought and not vice versa and you shall find yourself in the Enchanted Garden.

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Fri, 26 Oct 2012 #7
Thumb_stringio Dean R. Smith Canada 1145 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Ravi Seth wrote:
Simply let observation ride thought

What does that mean? The observer is the observed, you know? :)

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

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Fri, 26 Oct 2012 #8
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

Dean R. Smith wrote:
What does that mean?

No-thing :-)

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Fri, 26 Oct 2012 #9
Thumb_img_1496 Per . Sweden 10 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
I still wonder if it's possible for us to move away from "the known" and have a discussion which has the same quality of freshness to it as when Krishnamurti was talking to people.

As it is seen here it is all about understanding. A true understanding probes far beyond the verbal level, deep into the wordless "unknown". Mere verbal understanding is nothing but an explanation - a tranquilizer for an agitated mind..

When such deep understanding is shared the miracle of communion occurs, a quality of freshness and shared wonder. It is also in this shared understanding, beyond the known, that true relationship happens. Or to put it differently; anything less than communion is just parallel living and not relationship at all.. We can only truly meet in the living truth of the unknown; a repeated truth is already a lie.. To truly meet we need to constantly brush the known aside..

Are we talking?

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Fri, 26 Oct 2012 #10
Thumb_stringio Dean R. Smith Canada 1145 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Ravi Seth wrote:
No-thing :-)

Exactly. It means nothing.

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

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Fri, 26 Oct 2012 #11
Thumb_stringio Dean R. Smith Canada 1145 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Per 4got wrote:
We can only truly meet in the living truth of the unknown

What exactly is meeting in the living truth of the unknown?

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

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Fri, 26 Oct 2012 #12
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Sean Hen wrote:
I'd be grateful to hear your views on this.

Dear Sean,as a very good friend of mind says.."The proof of the pudding is in the eating"!:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

This post was last updated by RICK LEIN (account deleted) Fri, 26 Oct 2012.

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Fri, 26 Oct 2012 #13
Thumb_img_1496 Per . Sweden 10 posts in this forum Offline

Dean R. Smith wrote:
What exactly is meeting in the living truth of the unknown?

You ponder sir; what comes to you? I cannot put it better. Either we share this understanding or we don´t... Simple as that:)

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Fri, 26 Oct 2012 #14
Thumb_stringio Dean R. Smith Canada 1145 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

re: What exactly is meeting in the living truth of the unknown?

Per 4got wrote:

You ponder sir; what comes to you? I cannot put it better. Either we share this understanding or we don´t... Simple as that:)

If you don't know what you're talking about, just say so. If you want to wax poetic, perhaps you shouldn't use words that you have no real understanding of, so that the forum doesn't begin to smell like a stable.

"See thought arising; watch it. Without that, all else is illusion and becoming."

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Fri, 26 Oct 2012 #15
Thumb_2533 Inglish Man India 110 posts in this forum Offline

Sean Hen wrote:
but I still wonder if it's possible for us to move away from "the known" and have a discussion which has the same quality of freshness to it as when Krishnamurti was talking to people.

No, it is not possible to move way from known and have a discussion which has the same quality of freshness to it as when Krishnamurti was talking to people. The reason is simple. The desire of imitating K-quality in discussion is a proof that the participant is only capable of sharing knowledge and experiences of self or others.

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Fri, 26 Oct 2012 #16
Thumb_2533 Inglish Man India 110 posts in this forum Offline

Ravi Seth wrote:
It is also not required to talk face-to-face to convey 'that'.It touched me when 'k' was an unknown to me when i, by chance, went through one of his writings.It touched me when i heard him first hand and touches me again whenever i read any of his commentaries/dialoges/conversations.It remains like the fresh wind that rejuvenates one by its perfume.

Whatever touched you, could it be anything but pleasure?

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Fri, 26 Oct 2012 #17
Thumb_2533 Inglish Man India 110 posts in this forum Offline

Ravi Seth wrote:
Simply let observation ride thought and not vice versa and you shall find yourself in the Enchanted Garden.

The projection of "enchanted garden" is anti-observation, isn't it?

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Fri, 26 Oct 2012 #18
Thumb_2533 Inglish Man India 110 posts in this forum Offline

Per 4got wrote:
To truly meet we need to constantly brush the known aside..

That 'brushing aside' signifies that you will meet only as "you" and "I".

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Fri, 26 Oct 2012 #19
Thumb_2533 Inglish Man India 110 posts in this forum Offline

RICK LEIN wrote:
Sean Hen wrote:

I'd be grateful to hear your views on this.
Dear Sean,as a very good friend of mind says.."The proof of the pudding is in the eating"!:)
Friend's view or Sean's friends' views, what is the difference? The demand of or emphasis on views tell its own story, doesn't it?

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Sat, 27 Oct 2012 #20
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

Inglish Man wrote:
Whatever touched you, could it be anything but pleasure?

ROTFL!

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Sat, 27 Oct 2012 #21
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

Inglish Man wrote:
The projection of "enchanted garden" is anti-observation, isn't it?

Thought is Dukkha.In observation there is no dukkha.

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Sat, 27 Oct 2012 #22
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Inglish Man wrote:
what is the difference? The demand of or emphasis on views tell its own story, doesn't it?

Well...Mr.Inglish my very good friend.in this case the difference is between theory..and doing...concept..and actuality!In short one must go there ones self..or actually "Eat" the pudding! LOL:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Sat, 27 Oct 2012 #23
Thumb_man_question_mark dhirendra singh India 2984 posts in this forum Offline

RICK LEIN wrote:
Well...Mr.Inglish my very good friend.in this case the difference is between theory..and doing...concept..and actuality!In short one must go there ones self..or actually "Eat" the pudding! LOL:)

:)

I don't know

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Sat, 27 Oct 2012 #24
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 886 posts in this forum Offline

Hi everybody,

Many thanks to all of you who have contributed to this message thread which I started.

We were talking about two points - firstly, whether our contact with K’s teachings had changed us or not and secondly if it were possible to have the same kind of open and fresh communication here in this forum which many of us found when reading K’s work.

As regards the first question, it seems there are three possibilities: 1. Reading K’s work has had no effect upon us. 2. Our contact with K’s work has changed us in a positive way. 3. Our contact with the teachings has had a negative effect on us.

If possibility number two is true, it would seem fair to assume that we are more sensitive and aware and approach life with a more open heart and mind. If possibility number three is true, and we have become even more conditioned and narrow than before by having another layer of conditioning added to the little envelope which is “me”, then perhaps we believe “I know but you do not know” or “I have understood the teachings but you have not”.

I must say that I agree with Nick’s friend who said “The proof of the pudding is in the eating”. There is surely a big difference between theory and doing. However, this is related to the second point I brought up. I was wondering if it were possible to “eat pudding” here in this forum. I mean, not just to exchange theories or things we know, but to communicate in a way which has a quality of freshness and shared discovery about it.

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Sat, 27 Oct 2012 #25
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Sean Hen wrote:
I was wondering if it were possible to “eat pudding” here in this forum.

Pudding is best eaten on an empty stomach my good friend..if one is already full of other things..well..no room left for desert?:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Sat, 27 Oct 2012 #26
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 886 posts in this forum Offline

Dear Rick,

Sorry, I called you "Nick" in my last message.

Yes, good point about being too full to eat pudding - food for "thought". :)

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Sat, 27 Oct 2012 #27
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Sean Hen wrote:
I must say that I agree with Nick’s friend who said “The proof of the pudding is in the eating”. There is surely a big difference between theory and doing.

Actually Sean,Nick and Rick are not that close! LOL...Neither is the person from whom Rick borrowed that quote close to Nick!:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Sat, 27 Oct 2012 #28
Thumb_stringio RICK LEIN United States 4436 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Inglish Man wrote:
Whatever touched you, could it be anything but pleasure?

Apparently you have not met my ex wife?:)

THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE

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Sat, 27 Oct 2012 #29
Thumb_001 Sean Hen Spain 886 posts in this forum Offline

Hi again Rick,

RICK LEIN wrote:
Actually Sean,Nick and Rick are not that close! LOL...Neither is the person from whom Rick borrowed that quote close to Nick!:)

Thanks for pointing out the degrees of closeness/separation between Nick, Rick and Rick's friend.

Maybe you could all come together and share some pudding one day :)

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