Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
General Discussion | moderated by Dev Singh

A stroll in a day..... a reflection of the mind....past, present,&future.


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Fri, 31 Aug 2012 #661
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

"To understand life and to have true values, you must perceive how you are held by the opposites, and before rejecting them, you must discern their deep significance."(quote of the day 31-08-2012)

The mood swings from habitual behaviour to a life conditioned by faith is most common and arduous.But that is how most people live.A habit and a faith can always contradict each other which we may not be aware at all.

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Sat, 01 Sep 2012 #662
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

"This awareness is not occupation with one's own thoughts and feelings, but a constant discernment, freed from choice, of what is true. All choice is based on tendency, craving and ignorance, which prevents true discernment. If choice exists, there cannot be awareness."(01-09-2012).

Normally we think that we have better awareness when we are able to make more choices.Is this awareness related to our strong desire which does not reveal itself?

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This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Sat, 01 Sep 2012.

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Sun, 02 Sep 2012 #663
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Such experiences create impression of actual ones,which ultimately lead to contradictions.Right under this experience there is hidden craving for some thing which needs to be paid attention without altering its true nature.
This patricular hidden desire(craving) is not directly focused at the conscious level may be beccause of fear,or an ideal or some other limitation.The urge seems to persists through 'vicarious experience'.That is one is superimposing oneself on one's own creation of a character through a thought process.Probably the individual may lose contact with his surroundings as long as that thought process lasts.Process may have its logic,but the process may not be in tune with present happenings.Therefore the focus needs to be at the fear,the ideal or the limitation.That might perhaps defuse the influence of base level craving.

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Sun, 02 Sep 2012 #664
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

"Can anyone else tell you what is true? Can anyone tell you what is God? No one can; you have to discover it for yourself. So, to find out what is true, what is the significance of life, what is immortality, without which life becomes a chaotic triviality, a senseless, blind suffering, you must have intelligence; and to awaken that intelligence you must strip the mind and heart of stupidities.

The first cause of stupidity is that consciousness which clings to the particular and therefore creates the distinction between the group and itself, that consciousness whose very essence is the thought of acquisitiveness, of "mine". This limited consciousness is the very root and cause of stupidity, suffering.

One of its manifestations is the constant craving for security, security in the realm of one's entire being, physically, emotionally, and mentally. In search of that security there is bound to be conflict between what we call the individual and the group, the exaggerations of the individual as against the group, leading to constant friction, struggle, and suffering."

This quote points out the consequence of being certain about security,and its fallout on the being.Uncertanity alone keeps the individual attentive,alert and sensitive.

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Mon, 03 Sep 2012 #665
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

"How can a system keep you awake, or anything else except your own intensity of interest, the necessity of keeping awake? Please see the significance of this question."

The interest and compulsion to keep awake,do they not involve (craving)desire?Is that particular interest not out of wanting but as a consequence of pure awareness(discernment)?Or a pure awareness has its own action,which we can say it is the interest?

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Thu, 06 Sep 2012 #666
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

A water pumping instrument requires continueous supply of power for its running/pumping otherwise it can not do its job.If there is over supply of power to the instrument,it will break down.It needs appropriate ammount of supply of power to it.Its want of power has a limit,it can not exceed that limit.Analogously a live organic being requires energy(physically) for its survival,for which it has to make its own arrangements unlike human made instruments.Wanting of being is not as simple as that of a physical instrument which requires power.It is subjected to the fulfillment,and safety ,and protection of the organic body.The wanting also meets the other psychological requirements of the being.Is that where the wanting(craving) does its job overly?

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This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Thu, 06 Sep 2012.

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Mon, 10 Sep 2012 #667
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

"To comprehend actuality, or to experience reality, there must be discernment. Discernment is that state of integrated thought-emotion in which all craving, choice has ceased; it is not a state induced through mere denial and suppression. All want, craving, perverts discernment, even the craving for reality. Want conditions thought-emotion and so makes it incapable of direct discernment. Hence, if the mind is prejudiced by any theory or explanation, or if it is caught in any belief, such as that of any religion or philosophy, it is utterly incapable of discernment."(10-09-2012)

There is no way one could discern oneself without being aware of one's own beliefs and reactions?Is the thought over doing its role as a communicator?

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Mon, 10 Sep 2012 #668
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

We are always active,but only the thing is that we are not aware of the activity at every instant,because we are absorbed into our own thoughts.Therefore we have very often find ourselves that our thinking is not in tune with surrounding's happennings or at times completely out tune in with our action.There is no way we are aware of the doings that we indulge in,are they actions or reactions?

Actions are done on facts.The reactions are done due to some cause in the past.The cause could always carry with it fallacy,so that reaction could be an illusion.When we are so abosrbed into the thought which carries the reaction,there is no way we could instantly be aware of the illusion that it contains.Is this due to the process of identification with the thoughts/objects/issues?

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Tue, 11 Sep 2012 #669
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

"the mind has become merely a record of the various lessons of experience. These experiences, with their lessons, have become memories and these memories have become self-protective warnings. If you deeply examine the so-called lessons gained from experiences, you will see that they are merely the cunning desire for self-protection which guides you in the present. This cunning self-protective guidance prevents the comprehension of the living present. Thus experience adds to the storehouse more lessons, more memories, cunning knowledge by which to guide yourself in times of tribulation. But if you examine this so-called knowledge, you will see that it is nothing but self-protective memories stored up for the future and which become the authority that guides and directs action."(11/09/2012)

It appears that memory,self(felicitator/monitor/carzer),thought(communicater) are utilities for a live organic body to function on its own,once it comes under the influence of cognizance.This whole system of psychological entities to extend thier activities to feel(self) itself as independent is an illusion.The illusion perhaps ends once it(self) realizes that it can not be on its own unless there is awareness working behind all its functions.

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Sun, 16 Sep 2012 #670
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

"The illusion perhaps ends once it(self) realizes that it can not be on its own unless there is awareness working behind all its functions."(#669)

There is no way the ego could functioning without awareness,infact it feels and projects what it feels as 'the awareness' and is that where it takes a false step?Why is this force of projection ?Is this due to the craving for self expression?cannot one live without this self expression?

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Wed, 19 Sep 2012 #671
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

"All of us are in some measure caught up in suffering, whether economic, physical, psychological or spiritual. To understand the cause of suffering and to be free from that cause is our constant problem.

To understand the fundamental cause of suffering, we cannot divide man into different parts. Man is indivisible, though he expresses himself through many aspects, and assumes many forms of expression which give him great complexity. There are specialists who study these various divisions and aspects of man and try to discover along their special lines the cause of suffering, but we cannot leave the comprehension of ourselves to another. We must understand ourselves as a whole and examine our own desires and activities. We must discern the "I" process, which seeks ever to perpetuate and maintain itself separately through its own activities. When we fully comprehend this process, there will be the awakening of that intelligence which alone can free us from sorrow."(19-09-2012).

Do we suffer only due to the urge to fulfill in our endeavours in either economic,physical,psychological or spritual pursuits?Is the urge(want) to fullfill oneself in one's endeavours an illusion?

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Wed, 26 Sep 2012 #672
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

What is that is really closest to us ,except the feeling?we are what our feelings are,but how long?Feelings change.Then why is that we get bored?A bore is also a feeling.Do the feelings have to be fresh and new,and renewal of feelings a regular feature?

Is the feeling true to its perception of sense organs? Or sensations are true to our perception?or do they distort our feelings because of thier strong impulses of like&dislike,and attract&repel,which are direct result of the environment?

Feelings depict the present status of our mind.Feelings change the mind changes.

With all this why is that we do not perceive the things as they are?In our actual dispensation in from moment to moment we never acknowldge the self, past,and memory.They come as after thought?

With all the aspects that are prevailing,can we say we have the complete knowldge of ourselvese?Reactions(actions) we are aware?Verbalization we know.What do they verbalize?the feelinfs?Can verbalization give a true picture of ourselves?With fleeting feelings,are we never to know ourselves?

Is our nature is so changing,that there is no fixed personality of ours?How true is this?Are we forced to depend on knowldge such as thought,past,memory,time,and JK and the rest?If thought,past,memory,time are not just part of knowldge,but are also part of us,do we have direct feel of those?

These are few reflections of the day.Perhaps a reaction to dis-satisfaction due to lack of choiceless awareness

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Fri, 28 Sep 2012 #673
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

What is the impact of gratification on our minds? Do we ever admit non-gratification psychologically? Why do we do that? Unless we are gratified we do not feel content mentally. Is it self boosting?
Why do we hanker on satisfaction of what we demand instead of focusing on actual facts that our want really made up of? How do we measure the satisfaction? Is it simple extension of our measure of things in material world? Is it a past record of measure? Can the measure of satisfaction be fresh? Is hankering on psychological hankering on satisfaction an illusion?
The psychological gratification, satisfaction, and fulfilment need past records and memory at every instant and psychological time? Past records can always be deferent from the present ones, thus creating an illusion out of our own standards of measure.

Therefore our consciousness is nothing but thoughts of the psychological entities mentioned above, and their action involving the thought process.

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This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Fri, 28 Sep 2012.

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Fri, 28 Sep 2012 #674
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

I thank the Kinfonet for restoring the avatar.

K.M.Arjuna Rao.

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Tue, 02 Oct 2012 #675
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

A reaction that is original.
If one is always to live in the past and its recollection, what is one’s original reaction? Is there such a thing at all?
When was one first cognized or be aware, and responded to oneself and the surroundings? Is this not part of the past? Is clinging to past ignorance? Then is ignorance there when the first cognition took place? It sounds contradictory. Then is there no original reaction? If past is over thrown, can there be original cognition? Or Awareness is ever fresh?

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Sat, 06 Oct 2012 #676
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Craving results in creating a(definition of process)series of actions to achieve an end, making natural and suitable series of changes, which deal with the known and established procedures that cognition proveds for; which(cognition)basically give a natural trait to the process, an acquisitive knowledge of the thing that is craved for, through either thought or perception(definition of cognition).As the whole process is around the sustenance of the process of craving, there is a feeling of an individuality of the being, which is active around the process itself and responds to it(definition of consciousness).That is the individual consciousness, which goes by the name process of "I".
THIS IS A CONSTRUCTION OF THE STATEMENT "Craving results in creating a process of "I"", BASED ON THE MEANINGS/DEFINITIONS GIVEN BY THE OXFORD ENGLISH MINIDICTIONARY.
We take the dictionaries for granted, as a belief almost. Is that to say we live a life of approximations and not an exact life?

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This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Mon, 08 Oct 2012.

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Mon, 15 Oct 2012 #677
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

There were several occations on which these questions kept occuring,and even now they very often croped up:

Why does one ask for self-realization,when the self is also some body elses idea ?Even the discernment,god,transformation haunts one very often.Unless one is forced to stay with now,and present,why is one despises one's own state of being at this instant as if one belongs some other place?

A repeated reaction of the day.

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This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Mon, 15 Oct 2012.

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Thu, 18 Oct 2012 #678
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

When it all started, it was question if one really understood what actual Jk was trying to say, and one really understood it correctly. Once that phase has gone, it is question of: is one under the authority of Jk?. So that now, one would like to be independent of Jk’s authority. What for? Is it because one is not promised transformation/realization if one is under the influence of some body? Is it not craving for something?

There has been lot of doings and undoing’s of mental exercises based on trial and error basis, which is clear of some target, which one never, admitted it consciously. That is because one has fear being wrong in the approach. In view of the (quote 18-10-2012) just undo oneself to get back to one’s original state? And what is the original state of one that one started with? Is it just remembrance of past, but original state? Or is it to remain just as one is at this moment? And let the thoughts go by without any hindrance?

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Sun, 21 Oct 2012 #679
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Krishnamurti Quote Archives » October 2012 » Quote For October 21,

Question: How can we solve the problems of sex?

Krishnamurti: Where there is love the problem of sex does not exist. It becomes a problem only when love has been displaced by sensation. So the question really is how to control sensation. If there were the vital flame of love, the problem of sex would cease. Now sex has become a problem through sensation, habit and stimulation, through the many absurdities of modern civilization. Literature, cinemas, advertisements, talk, dress - all these stimulate sensation and intensify the conflict. The problem of sex cannot be solved separately, by itself. It is futile to try to understand it through behaviouristic or scientific morality. Artificial restrictions may be necessary but they can only produce an arid and shallow life.

We all have the capacity for deep and inclusive love, but through conflict and false relationship, sensation and habit, we destroy its beauty. Through possessiveness with its many cruelties, through all the ugliness of reciprocal exploitation, we slowly extinguish the flame of love. We cannot artificially keep the flame alive, but we can awaken intelligence, love, through constant discernment of the many illusions and limitations which now dominate our mind-heart, our whole being. So what we have to understand is, not what kind of restrictions, scientific or religious, should be placed on wants and sensations, but how to bring about deep and enduring fulfilment. We are frustrated on every side; fear dominates our spiritual and moral life, forcing us to imitate, conform to false values and illusions. There is no creative expression of our whole being, either in work or in thought. So sensation becomes monstrously important and its problems overwhelming. Sensation is artificial, superficial, and if we do not penetrate deeply into want and comprehend its process our life will be shallow and utterly vain and miserable. The mere satisfaction of want or the continual change in want destroys intelligence, love. Love alone can free you from the problems of sex.(21-10-2012).

The exsesive and powerful stimulations of sensations distorts the exposure of the being to awareness,with result focus shifts to sustainace of the sensatations to fulfill the desire without any discrimination with the help of thought,memory,and time.Even here awareness plays its role in the direction of force of craving.Even if it is to reverse, it is awarness which needs to make way.Unless the being observes its state of mind and understand where his craving is driving it,awareness can in no way make the being head towards trueth of the matter.Is it powerfull craving/wanting of being which distorts our understanding or actual status of our being?

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Sun, 11 Nov 2012 #680
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

OBITUARY

The poster regrets to inform the sad demise of his spouse Shyamasundari due to breast/lung/bone cancer in the early hours on 10-11-2012.A lady who was basically dependent on her husband materially, but yet maintained her psychological independence. Such polarization often resulted in perfect ego-centred interactions. A chance that exposed the truth that a psychologically independent lady(person)is basically a selfless one, but only the traditional conditioning often results in conforming to set of norms, which appeared to be egoistic one. She had been a perfect mirror of reflections of our interactions/relations, in which I could see myself. Being a traditionalist in nature she always looked as if she was repugnant to JK, but her ending of issues was always in tune with the ending of the thought.

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This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Sun, 11 Nov 2012.

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Sun, 11 Nov 2012 #681
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

For instance she complained of the pain of her back, the doctor told her that she has bone cancer (spinal cord), she never again complained of the pain, and put her mind on the intake of pain killers, and their use. She complained of breathelessness, she was told of the collapse of his left lung, and effected right lung. She was put on ventilator for survival. She found herself in prison once she regained her consciousness. She bid good bye to everybody who came to visit her. Asked for a way out of this. Poster had no way to suggest, who in fact put her on ventilator. She wrote on paper asking his son to take her home. Came home where she lost much of her alertness, and became almost unconscious with hard breathings of oxegen, which became stand still gradually. Before breathing stopped she just opened her eyes to voice of her son, as if to initiate a talk with him, but just than her eye lid dropped down and breathing started sinking. She started leaving behind her consciousness at about 4.49 am. The dead leaf started falling down. but her ending of issues was always in tune with the ending of the thought.

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This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Sun, 11 Nov 2012.

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Fri, 23 Nov 2012 #682
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Mourning may have ended after 13 day, after the demise of my wife, but memories still linger.
Can the lingering die down just as consciousness dies when organism dies?

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Tue, 27 Nov 2012 #683
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

The best way to escape from harsh reality is to conform to family,then perhaps the pretty good daughter can make one fly to a place that one would probably never could go to a place like St Pauls, Minneapolis in winter time.A perfect physical isolation,but what of psychological isolation?

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Tue, 27 Nov 2012 #684
Thumb_img_7089_copy Eve G. Indonesia 1570 posts in this forum Offline

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
The best way to escape from harsh reality is to conform to family,then perhaps the pretty good daughter can make one fly to a place that one would probably never could go to a place like St Pauls, Minneapolis in winter time.A perfect physical isolation,but what of psychological isolation?

I wanted to acknowledge your post on the death of your wife and now your trip to Minneapolis in winter :) Too cold for most of us there. But maybe a change of place and some time with your daughter would be a healing process. Psychological isolation like psychological suffering is it necessary?

The nature of the change from disorder is silence.

This post was last updated by Eve G. Tue, 27 Nov 2012.

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Tue, 27 Nov 2012 #685
Thumb_img_7089_copy Eve G. Indonesia 1570 posts in this forum Offline

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
Mourning may have ended after 13 day, after the demise of my wife, but memories still linger.
Can the lingering die down just as consciousness dies when organism dies?

What is the response to the memories?

The nature of the change from disorder is silence.

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Wed, 28 Nov 2012 #686
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Eve G. wrote:
Psychological isolation like psychological suffering is it necessary?

Not at all necessary.But when physical isolation is there,psychological isolation comes as a complement.Psychological isolation could be there even otherwise.That is the problem.Anyway thanks for your concern.What do you want me to say of the memories,when I am baffled with the way my wife handled her thoughts once she came to know that she was to die in few months.She had no time for old images of our past apart from the suffering that she was facing at that instant.Helpless.

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Wed, 28 Nov 2012 #687
Thumb_img_7089_copy Eve G. Indonesia 1570 posts in this forum Offline

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
Not at all necessary.But when physical isolation is there,psychological isolation comes as a complement.Psychological isolation could be there even otherwise.

What do you mean by 'physical isolation'? We all have separate bodies. Psychological isolation is a state of 'choice' grief/suffering or loneliness? K as the pointer, pointed to that state with its connection to thought.

We all want comfort and to escape pain, the problem with that approach is that it compounds the suffering. Sit and cry my friend there is nothing to be done. Just feel it all and then let it go. Analysis of the past will prolong the pain not resolve it or help you understand it.

Death the great equalizer, brings both relief and much needed ending of suffering when we want to 'do' something about it, action brings more of it, understanding it non-action......

The nature of the change from disorder is silence.

This post was last updated by Eve G. Wed, 28 Nov 2012.

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Wed, 28 Nov 2012 #688
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Eve G. wrote:
Just feel it all and then let it go. Analysis of the past will prolong the pain not resolve it or help you understand it.

That is it.Thanks.

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Tue, 04 Dec 2012 #689
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Looking out of the window of daughter’s house in St Paul Minneapolis, Minnesota, it is bright Tuesday morning, with warm sun rays falling on poster’s laptop after eight days of his arrival in the twin cities .It is a pleasant day which appeared like the morning hours of Hyderabad, perhaps comparison ends there, and one wonders if one could go out with casuals just as in Hyderabad. It is still chilly outside. There are many similarities such as both are twincities, both do have continental atmosphere, yet they are deferent. The sun never comes directly above the head hear, so that there is always a trace of one’s shadow protruding out of one’s body whenever there is a bright sunshine in Minneapolis at any instant. Perhaps that makes this place unique in its physical features. Even Hyderabad(India) east,west,north,south are tilted to the left as Hyderabad is place to the north west of south central India. Yet we cannot say both places are similar. The physical features are so strong on our mind, our past continuations ends there. One feels to get isolated. That is what happens if awareness does not have its mark on the individual’s mind. Perhaps little more adaptation to the environment shall bring in a better mobility. When mobility is there, the isolation can end. When isolation ends, you need not depend on others for your needs. Can this happen psychologically? Can one be alone?

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Sat, 05 Jan 2013 #690
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

"Intellect cannot lead you out of this present chaos, confusion and suffering. Reason must exhaust itself, not by retreating, but through integral comprehension and love of life.
When reason no longer has the capacity to protect you, through explanations, escapes, logical conclusions, then when there is complete vulnerability, utter nakedness of your whole being, there is the flame of love."(05-01-2013).

Is this the triger of passion that JK often speaks off?

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