Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
General Discussion | moderated by Dev Singh

A stroll in a day..... a reflection of the mind....past, present,&future.


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Thu, 15 Mar 2012 #511
Thumb_deleted_user_med Daniel Dan France 251 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

ganesan balachandran wrote:
pratyaksa (direct knowledge) is more important. Sri Aurobindo

:-)

Dan.

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Thu, 15 Mar 2012 #512
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

Daniel Dan wrote:
:-)

Nowadays direct perception only and not even knowledge, with k and without K, but occasionally:)
gb

pratyaksa and perception sounds similar.

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

This post was last updated by ganesan balachandran Thu, 15 Mar 2012.

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Thu, 15 Mar 2012 #513
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

ganesan balachandran wrote:
I find that Shankara has grasped much of Vedantic truth, but that much was dark to him. Iam bound to admit what he realized; I am not bound to exclude what he failed to realise

It really sounds plausible that any opinions fall short of actual,yet we indulge in it for our own mental stability,which infact turn out to be fallacy.

nothing

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Fri, 16 Mar 2012 #514
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
which infact turn out to be fallacy.

:)
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

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Fri, 16 Mar 2012 #515
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

ganesan balachandran wrote:
kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
which infact turn out to be fallacy.

:)

When we have opinions about the facts,the undestanding based on them could always be just an idea.Idea can never gets one to the trueth.(Interpertations are always ideas, at least under the authority of Jk).

nothing

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Fri, 16 Mar 2012 #516
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
When we have opinions about the facts,the undestanding based on them could always be just an idea.

clearly AdiSankara dealt only with the philosophic portion of veda, like dealing only with the fruits, though he acknowledged the tree, branches and roots.But no body need a philosophy, system, organised religion and he might have failed to realize that, because of dealing only with the fruits or vedantic portion of it.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

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Sun, 18 Mar 2012 #517
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

This was not the first time the poster ever passed through this path while going for a stroll in the morning hours.The vegitation,the rocks or a scenery is not unfamiliar, the past could have easily conected it to the surrondings,yet it appears today the reasonably huge steep rock appeared different.Suddenly first it conected it to a huge Shival Linga,then it appeared like budha's antique,walked little further it appeared like huge (chipanji)ape.The last figure that struck lasted quite some time.Looked at it with little more intensity,for sure the image of the beast lasted for some more time firmly.It is not that shiva linga ,or, budha could not be accounted in that rock,infact they could be seen,but the appearance of ape is prominet.

There was nothing special about its being a rock.The steep rock of about 5 to 6 feet in height ,though the steepness of the rock at the top is little blunt resumbling linga or budha's head(shaved).There were two deep cuts horizantly ,spaced at distance,which looked like eyes of the beast,just besides the beast there appeared the budha's face.

if the poster takes some body else to that rock and ask that person to give the account, one could wonder if same reporting would be there?Is it the reflection of the observer? what does it reveal?

The state of the mind of the poster at that stage was, he was experimenting with ending of thought that sprang up after seeing the object that was engaging him?

If that is so ,among those visions,which of them tell about 'what is' and 'what should be'?Is the duality really worth paying attention?, or does it lead to another illussion?

nothing

This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Mon, 19 Mar 2012.

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Mon, 19 Mar 2012 #518
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Off late the poster had stopped worrying about the thought while on a morning walk, instead just started paying attention to the sensitivity of body,mind,and its senses.The walk itself is observed.Body is walking as per the dictates of the walker.The walking and walker both appeared distinct.The whole thing appeared to the mind strainfull.Slowly shifting the attention to the walker,there was a stress,rupture, and grinding or sinking(perhaps both simultaniously) sort of action in the middle of the trunk, more near to the chest(mid way).Perhaps the feel of the centre of gravity acting at that place,at times feeling its impact on the middle of the spinal cord. This is the actual discription of what was felt as far as the poster recollects at time of writing this post.While on this observation, there was no knowldge of either the walker or walking.Only the sound of the grinding and its inpact in the middle of the chest.It got distrubed by the cough.Then the things are as useual.

nothing

This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Mon, 19 Mar 2012.

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Mon, 19 Mar 2012 #519
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

There was observation of the nature,and its reaction by the mind.There was an effort to hold the thought,and so the reaction.Vission was distorted, the object appeared in defferent shapes.The Shivalinga or Budha or the ape are part of the knowldge/past of the poster or rather images that he carries with him.But he still may have those ape like qualities in his behaviour which "what is?"Is there no possibility to infer the theoritical aspects?The Budha or Shivalinga may account for "what should be".It may be a subtle desire of the observer to become like either the Shiva or Budha.Which is an illusion.

nothing

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Tue, 20 Mar 2012 #520
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

The poster feels that the visions are just images.Between the Budha image and ape's image , there is missing (an image) actual person's nature, who is afraid of seeing the truth and trying to hide his true colour.What is the fear about? That is the question to be probed.

nothing

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Wed, 21 Mar 2012 #521
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

As long as fear is there,there is either conflict between thoughts or sustaince of "me"(self projection).Then the coflict must stop or the self projection must seize, perhaps then the fear could end,eventually one could face "what is", without any hindarance.Is it really possible for one to live a life without self projection?Does the self-projection end with thought passing through without a trace of it?

nothing

This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Wed, 21 Mar 2012.

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Wed, 21 Mar 2012 #522
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

The "me" is the fear.

nothing

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Fri, 30 Mar 2012 #523
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

There has been a persistance re-occuring of the thoughts concerning the nature of desire, and the subtle form of fears concerning existance of 'me'.It is basically aviodance of the fact that 'The "me" is the fear'.It all sums up to the thought:

"I can not aviod desire,but all my desires need not be full filled ,yet I aspire."

How does one think through this thought,so that it passes through without a trace of it?"

nothing

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Sat, 31 Mar 2012 #524
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

The first response to the yesterday's reflection seems to be the quote of today:

"A man who would understand the trueth must be free from the desire for security and confort."

This needs to be probed further.Question is why is the person ,still resorts to aspire for some thing, inspite of knowing its futility?Is that an escape from 'me'?

nothing

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Mon, 02 Apr 2012 #525
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

The personal experiences do occure while some body is trying serious spritual experiments,but one wonders if one can make claims over those experiences without making it contraversail.Most realized persons never claimed anything,it is others who recogniged those people as realized souls.

Can I recognise a true spiritual person with all my JK/Maharishi teachings engaging my mind?That matters.

nothing

This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Tue, 03 Apr 2012.

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Mon, 02 Apr 2012 #526
Thumb_deleted_user_med Peng Shu Tse United Kingdom 1205 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dear Arjuna,

When one has an experience, is it held? It is only when it is being held that it takes the form of an experience. Experience is the unending state of being here in this world. But we hold that which we feel important (yet do not understand) as discrete events, whereas the now is always concrete. You cannot hold the now but you can abstract discrete experiences from it.

So, with a religious experience. If it has any validity you will have been changed by it. But you feel there is more to be gained. You want to milk the cow a second time.Let it go and do not expect. You have no means to validate it or to dismiss it. It either was or it wasn't. It is the holding on, the making claims, that robs you of your attention.

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Tue, 03 Apr 2012 #527
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Peng Shu Tse wrote:
It is the holding on, the making claims, that robs you of your attention.

Yes,sure, it is so.

nothing

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Thu, 05 Apr 2012 #528
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
"I can not aviod desire,but all my desires need not be full filled ,yet I aspire."

This statement, it appears to the poster that one has made a perfect net work of escapes to avoid the sheer emptyness of the mind.Why is one unable to face the emptyness of the mind?For the simple reason that it is frightening to the 'me' to remains as nothing.Infact in such situations are most suitable to turn an individual into an ambistious man,atleast that is the theory.But it is not so.The individual is perhaps well aware that the emptyness of mind is to be thrusted on him if not now,atleast latter,which could have been an illusion.There is fear lurking in the face of the individual.Does he really know that there is a possibility of emptyness of the mind, or atleast its image?

But it still insists on aspiring,with all its awareness that those aspirations are going to be nothing real?Is that the starting point of identification of objects and resorting to the process of imagination where all his unfullfilled desires find their expression and the mind is not empty,thus avoiding the image of empty mind?Is it aware that facing empty mind is 'what is', which forces the process of 'me' to end, which is frightening?

Did this individual threw his 'ambistioun' just to placate the invitable 'emptyness of mind',by just resorting to fantacy?

nothing

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Fri, 06 Apr 2012 #529
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Is continueous avoidance of what frightens one also a subtile form authority?,which means that all escapes from 'what is' is under some authority?Then it is 'me' which is the authority.It is also the fear.Does fear become the master?

Please refer to todays' quote(April 6th).

nothing

This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Fri, 06 Apr 2012.

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Fri, 06 Apr 2012 #530
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

It appears that basic nature of 'me' is fear.It is fearfull of its end at every instant.Though it is resourcefull and energitic, it always flinch away its energy for its survival.Therefore self-protection is its inherent quality.It creats a centre for its protection otherwise it can not survive.Unless this centre is disolved, the fear will not come to end.

nothing

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Sat, 14 Apr 2012 #531
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

A quote from the talks at Poona 1948 by JK;source the book "On Self-Knowldge" which gives what actually thinking a thought through.

Krishnamurti:To think a thought throughj is quite an arduos task and very few of us are willing to do so.We like to transform a thought,to put it in a different frame or mould;we do not want to think it through.There must be nodesire totransform a thought.there must be no desire to get rid of it or to put it in different frame........So to think a thought through is to see how thought is deceiving itself running away from 'what is'.You can think a thought out fully,completely,only when you stop all avenues of escape and look at it, which requires an extraordinary honest; and most of us are dishonest in our thinking,we never want to see any thought through.It is discovery of how thought is deceiveing itself that is important, when you discover its deceitfullness, then you can face 'what is'.Then only 'what is' reveals its full significance, its meaning.

nothing

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Fri, 20 Apr 2012 #532
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
Unless this centre is disolved, the fear will not come to end.

Where is this centre?Normally one could associate it with some part of our body because some thoughts,feelings,or happenings do give rise to jerks to the centre of the trunk of the body.Does that me it is the centre?One wonders if it is so?

Normally the identification of objects is around our physical body.And it is the centre for physical identification of objects around us.The radius of the circle is a variable.we have no problem with it.If the identification is psychological then could we extend the same model as in physical identification?There would be no clear circle drawn with centre and circumfrance

Suppose one observes a plant in one's garden,which makes one feel exited ,the moment it is named even before observing it completely.May be one would be totally with feelings, so there where the centre may be expected.Could one fix it?Change the object which inspires one to some thing else, the whole set of feelings change.

The centre is not fixed point.It infact comes into focus when there is object in front of the mind.For each mental object that is engaged there is corsponding centre.When there is no mental distance between the centre and mental object, it appears there is direct perception.Physically there is nothing really happense.Could distance be elliminated if there is no verbalization of thought?

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Fri, 20 Apr 2012 #533
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

The mental objects are the name,fame,images,desires,likes,dislikes and several others.Centre is there when these objects come up in the mind.It is thought which creats centre.

nothing

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Fri, 20 Apr 2012 #534
Thumb_deleted_user_med Daniel Dan France 251 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
It appears that basic nature of 'me' is fear.It is fearfull of its end at every instant.Though it is resourcefull and energitic, it always flinch away its energy for its survival.Therefore self-protection is its inherent quality.It creats a centre for its protection otherwise it can not survive.Unless this centre is disolved, the fear will not come to end.

Hello Arjuna...:-)

Would you agree to say that fear is a side effect of running away,or is running away itself or put differently a side effect of refusing( incapacity) to consider some facts met on a journey, like death, insecurity, no continuity and so on?

Dan.

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Fri, 20 Apr 2012 #535
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

It(me) is frightened of 'what is'.It runs away from it.It feels as if it is dying if it stays with it.It runs way in the hope of surviving death, and in search of security.

nothing

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Fri, 20 Apr 2012 #536
Thumb_deleted_user_med Daniel Dan France 251 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
It(me) is frightened of 'what is'.It runs away from it.It feels as if it is dying if it stays with it.It runs way in the hope of surviving death, and in search of security.

Arjuna..would you see that maybe ,this is a "technical" matter of a process (analytical) which ability is not to deal with something which is not already in the memory....self can't deal with what is beyond its own memory ?? in fact it does not even run away, but just can't deal with what is not the past....but yet keep the control ....then it is not looking at what is because it cannot "technically" do that ...it looks at memories and so on...

Dan.

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Fri, 20 Apr 2012 #537
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Daniel Dan wrote:
then it is not looking at what is because it cannot "technically" do that ...it looks at memories and so on...

Yes, it does not see 'what is',for the simple reason, it can not remain as it is,it has the fear of ending its self-projection,and end itself.Along with it thought,memory,and time which are its off-shoots also end.The fear is mostly due to image of 'what is' which is the creation of thought/memory.

nothing

This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Fri, 20 Apr 2012.

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Fri, 20 Apr 2012 #538
Thumb_deleted_user_med Daniel Dan France 251 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
Yes, it does not see 'what is',for the simple reason, it can not remain as it is,it has the fear of ending its self-projection,and end itself..

I understand Arjuna...I have this sensation that fear, so running away, so not looking at what is....is, maybe , only the insistence of a program to keep working where it is useless but even a problem....

Would all this thinking only be mechanical and having no perception at all of being only that , having no life at all ,as alive as a mathematical equation..

The the suffering so created seems the only first and maybe last resource appropriate when free to be....

A guide ??

Dan.

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Fri, 20 Apr 2012 #539
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Daniel Dan wrote:
The the suffering so created seems the only first and maybe last resource appropriate when free to be....

To be with passion!I wonder what could be the passion?

nothing

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Fri, 20 Apr 2012 #540
Thumb_deleted_user_med Daniel Dan France 251 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
To be with passion!I wonder what could be the passion?

I have search for this word,it seems to mean something like "entirely" by opposition to mediocre ,which means middle of the road ,never entirely involved in anything...

Dan.

This post was last updated by Daniel Dan (account deleted) Fri, 20 Apr 2012.

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