Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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A stroll in a day..... a reflection of the mind....past, present,&future.


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Wed, 28 Sep 2011 #1
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

This topic is inteneded for those who value their walking time ,so that apart from the health point of view, they can reflect and asses their own psychological being when they are alone walking on a street.

We read number of times Jk telling the us that we spend our time in past.Hardly we recollect whether we were in present,or past or future. Infact we are lost.We reley on the memory alone.

During walking,the mind is not just on walking alone, we observe,react to what we see,conect things in present to the past.I wonder if we can really remain in the present.

The identification of objects is at its fullswing.The imagination runs riot. All these things tell many things about psychological being of ours.A slight gist of our observations during the walk must help us understanding ourselves.This is open, therefore it atmost helps us put our conscious mind alert.

Can we be with our being,aleast during the walking?

I normally go for a walk alone.I don't think I have ever gone with some body,unless ofcourse my wife insists on jioning me.

Walking alone for a specific period has many things to tell the individual about individual itself.Observe ourselves, how jk's teaching really afected us, atleast at conscious level.

nothing

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Wed, 28 Sep 2011 #2
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
Walking alone for a specific period has many things to tell the individual about individual itself.Observe ourselves, how jk's teaching really afected us, atleast at conscious level.

Like you, I am also very fond of my daily walk in a big park near my house. The most important thing that becomes crystal clear during these walks is the understanding that it is very very difficult to stay aware of our surroundings and inner world of thoughts and reactions. One is not aware for more than a few paces when psychological thoughts take one in to past remembrances and future projections. One should give credit to natural surroundings that coming back from such escapes is becoming more and more frequent.

Good topic, ArjunaRao.

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Wed, 28 Sep 2011 #3
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Usually, when I walk, thought may be there but there is no intentionality to it. It is not trying to do something. It has a peregrine quality, it wanders according to the waves of sensory input which act as triggers to new thoughts, bifurcations, and new directions.

I observe that thought settles on some association, however vague, and starts to build a centre from that. As new sensations intrude and distract the continuity the centre crumbles and thought moves out to the periphery, the interface with the senses. There selection takes place according to some semi-arbitrary process beyond my sight and a new centre begins to be build. The periphery is drawn in once more and the process begins again.

It is as if the waves of sensory input are being answered by a pulse-like motion of thought - two different forms of motion. Attention moves freely. Nothing matters. The legs walk.

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Wed, 28 Sep 2011 #4
Thumb_flower_4 Ana Flavia Lucas Brazil 28 posts in this forum Offline

Yesterday I was walking in the streets of São Paulo, busy streets, with lots of cars. I was leaving my work and going quickly to the underground, dreaming in arrive home and rest for a while. I had to walk about 8 blocks, and was submerged in the past- things that had just happened in the examination board I was, what the student said, what I should have said... Then I saw a car in the sidewalk, going back to the street - it was parked there, these are Sao Paulo streets. Autommatically, I stopped - cars have preference at São Paulo´s streets, and sidewalks. But the driver looked at me, saw me in the middle of the crowd, and I saw her. She smiled at me and stopped the car. I continued my walk, back to here and now. Time stopped when I saw the driver, the space between us disapeared. And I continued my walk, thinking in how good I felt when a complete stranger, for a moment, made real contact with me, in the middle of the crowd, and how I was back to present after that.

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Thu, 29 Sep 2011 #5
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Thanks for all those who chose to contribute to this topic.Infact I had these idea long back.I held back after seeing few topics were leying without postings.....

I woke up at about 6 in the morning,just to be surprised to see the Eenadu telugu distribution centre not yet opened.Normally the complete street in front our block ,there would be hectic activity of all news papers boys collection of materail.That has put me and my wife probing the reason for it.Naturally our whole attention was focused on ongoing strike by the local people for separate Telangana state.This has put me strait in to the present.I left for walking.I found out that except the urdu papers all other papers were out of the stands.Yes, it was token strike of all the distributers of the venacular ,and english papers for Telangana State.

I was completely in present, at least for about 30 minetes, which normally does not happen, I would be into past in no time conecting things of the past to present, making new look like the old.

I was picking up some vegitables from a street side vendor,who happend to be a muslim.Out of my own interest I asked him if they are going to sell vegitables inview of strike.He promptly told me "tharkari ke liye strike nahi hai sab".I happyly came out after buying the vegitables.What is interesting to note is that ,how we are obssed with our insecurity inspite of all precautions we have taken in view of the stike previously.Infact there was enough attention, which was paid to the consequences of on going strike, being a muslim dominated area we were relatively free of shortcomings due to strike.The immedaite issues have kept my walking time in present, otherwise it would have been in the past.

nothing

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Thu, 29 Sep 2011 #6
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Davidson wrote:
I observe that thought settles on some association, however vague, and starts to build a centre from that. As new sensations intrude and distract the continuity the centre crumbles and thought moves out to the periphery, the interface with the senses. There selection takes place according to some semi-arbitrary process beyond my sight and a new centre begins to be build. The periphery is drawn in once more and the process begins again.

I would be happy if you can kindly recollect how your body reacted to your mental activity from a centre?

nothing

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Thu, 29 Sep 2011 #7
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
. One is not aware for more than a few paces when psychological thoughts take one in to past remembrances and future projections

Indeed it is very defficult to peg the mind to the now.If you make any effort to keep the mind in present,does it really have any effect on your observations?Is it really worth making an effrot?

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Thu, 29 Sep 2011 #8
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Ana Flavia Lucas wrote:
But the driver looked at me, saw me in the middle of the crowd, and I saw her. She smiled at me and stopped the car. I continued my walk, back

These type of interactions tell us many things about our ownselves,which we normally do not pay much attention to them.I take note of those events quite seriously during my walk.

nothing

This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Thu, 29 Sep 2011.

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Thu, 29 Sep 2011 #9
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
Indeed it is very defficult to peg the mind to the now.If you make any effort to keep the mind in present,does it really have any effect on your observations?Is it really worth making an effrot?

Effort to keep mind in the present can certainly improve concentration power, but concentration is not attention. One way to assess the worth of an effort is to take note of benefits it brings. Is there any other way to gain from the 'effort'?

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Thu, 29 Sep 2011 #10
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

Ana Flavia Lucas wrote:
I had to walk about 8 blocks, and was submerged in the past- things that had just happened in the examination board I was, what the student said, what I should have said...

The happy ending that you write in your post was a gift. Living in the present will involve understanding of tendency of the mind to live in past or future. Temporary relief from the clutches of the self because of certain events or happenings is not equivalent to its ending, is it?

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Thu, 29 Sep 2011 #11
Thumb_flower_4 Ana Flavia Lucas Brazil 28 posts in this forum Offline

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
Temporary relief from the clutches of the self because of certain events or happenings is not equivalent to its ending, is it?

No,it is not. When I entered in the underground it had gone... But it is all I have now, moments of awareness that make me see how much I've been dreaming... I am also pretty aware that to judge myself because this is too little will not help...

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Fri, 30 Sep 2011 #12
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

I have been thinking what to do with the meditative aspect of my walking.Making an effort to observe have not resulted in satisfaction.I was reading a book of Jk's by name "The flight of the eagal".Perhapes the following quotes would clear the way.

"....Thought is the animal. Stick to that animal,please. Don't say the animal is the thought, or self,the'me',the ego,fear,greed,envy,and go back to another discription of it.That animal is all this.And we see that animal can not be chesed out gradually,because itwill always come back in different forms...."

so, the best way to mind myself is that watch the reactions of observation,I need not even worry about the animal.

When the attention was on the reaction of observing the surroundings,the observation was much more clear.Infact for a fraction of a second the whole obsevation appeared to have pass through me.The movement I was looking out for myself, that distortion started and spoiled the observation.Rest is a struggle.The impact of that on body is painfull.

nothing

This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Fri, 30 Sep 2011.

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Fri, 30 Sep 2011 #13
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

I find myself thinking that I ought not to make a comment on this right now for it would be theoretical and this subject ought to be more concrete, reporting on one's walks rather than theorising about it. So I ought to take a walk instead. Then I asked, ought I to go for a walk with the motive of writing a comment about it on Kinfonet?

Then I notice I have made four 'oughts' and I have only just finished breakfast! This 'ought-ism' has to stop! (Please notice this transition to 'has to' rather than 'ought to.')

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Fri, 30 Sep 2011 #14
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Davidson wrote:
Then I notice I have made four 'oughts' and I have only just finished breakfast! This 'ought-ism' has to stop! (Please notice this transition to 'has to' rather than 'ought to.')

This type of state of mind ,even I have faced once this topic started.I had to reassure myself that I must forget writing for the posting and go ahead with walking as useal.

Regular walkers have to deel with the reactions of the mind,which if they are not aware of those reactions, the walk turns out be a big drag which forces them to ask for company.A dependence.But with little care they can be alone.A true alonness can be highly meditative.Topic is intended for such a eventuality.

nothing

This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Fri, 30 Sep 2011.

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Fri, 30 Sep 2011 #15
Thumb_deleted_user_med Muad dhib Ireland 175 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
Regular walkers have to deal with the reactions of the mind,which if they are not aware of those reactions, the walk turns out be a big drag which forces them to ask for company.

Well , I may go back to france near Spain for one purpose only : walking in the wild mountains ...will we get work and so on ? I have no clue..the walking in the wild mountain is stronger than my own survival(I mean it) so and I am ready to waste all I have for that..:)
it implies to live in the south near the Spanish border in the mountains, simply because walking where nature is wild has nothing to do with anything else for me..they have not found a way yet to destroy it. I don't get the walking with others , I want to be alone , tired after a long mountain walking too...anyone willing to organise a talk should do it after 6 hours of mountain walking, then we would be more intelligent...that is from a movie, the beautiful green..

I don't understand meditation , I never did ...what do you mean by that..?

Dan.....

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Fri, 30 Sep 2011 #16
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Dear Dan,

You have made the first part of your posting very much look like poetical.Be a poet without a word,and be alone.That should be the meditation....(frankly I am also in search of it.)The brackted stand deleted.

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This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Fri, 30 Sep 2011.

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Fri, 30 Sep 2011 #17
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
frankly I am also in search of it.

Seeking, you will never find!

(My aphorism for the day)

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Fri, 30 Sep 2011 #18
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Davidson wrote:
Seeking, you will never find!

We shall not seek.

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Fri, 30 Sep 2011 #19
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

Ana Flavia Lucas wrote:
I am also pretty aware that to judge myself because this is too little will not help...

What is wrong by saying to yourself that moments of awareness are too little? Is it posible to supress such judgements by the mind?

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Fri, 30 Sep 2011 #20
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Davidson wrote:
Seeking, you will never find!

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
We shall not seek.

Is this 'negative thinking', Paul and ArjunaRao?

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Fri, 30 Sep 2011 #21
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
Is this 'negative thinking', Paul and Arjuna Rao

Why should be?why not undestanding?

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Fri, 30 Sep 2011 #22
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
Why should be?

Are you asking 'why should it be negative thinking'?

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
why not undestanding?

Can you say something about the relationship between 'negative thinking' and understanding? And also about positive thinking which has an opposite as negative thinking?

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Fri, 30 Sep 2011 #23
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Dear Dr.Sudhir,

Mr.Pual Davidson reminded the result of seeking, that's it.

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This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Fri, 30 Sep 2011.

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Fri, 30 Sep 2011 #24
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao wrote:
Mr.Pual Davidson reminded the result of seeking, that's it.

Let us put aside what our friend Paul said. Are you interested in replying to my post no. 22?

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Fri, 30 Sep 2011 #25
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
What is wrong by saying to yourself that moments of awareness are too little? Is it posible to supress such judgements by the mind?

I re-read Ana Flavia's account and could not find her saying or suggesting it is wrong to say moments of awareness are too little. She said it would be wrong to judge it as too little, implying in that judgement a need for more.

She did not make the judgement so the question of suppressing it does not arise, Sudhir. Are you reading with the correct prescription?

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Fri, 30 Sep 2011 #26
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
Is this 'negative thinking', Paul and ArjunaRao?

Is this negative questioning, Sudhir?

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Fri, 30 Sep 2011 #27
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
What is wrong by saying to yourself that moments of awareness are too little? Is it posible to supress such judgements by the mind?

I re-read Ana Flavia's account and could not find her saying or suggesting it is wrong to say moments of awareness are too little. She said it would be wrong to judge it as too little, implying in that judgement a need for more.

She did not make the judgement so the question of suppressing it does not arise, Sudhir. Are you reading with the correct prescription?

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Fri, 30 Sep 2011 #28
Thumb_rao kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao India 903 posts in this forum Offline

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
Let us put aside what our friend Paul said. Are you interested in replying to my post no. 22?

Are you testing my knowldge?I have no explanations for them.Do you know them?

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This post was last updated by kamarajugadda Mallik ArjunaRao Mon, 03 Oct 2011.

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Fri, 30 Sep 2011 #29
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
And also about positive thinking which has an opposite as negative thinking?

Not opposites. Only two false things oppose each other. Negative thinking is using thought to question and go into itself, to see and understand its own working precepts and to question their validity, truth or falseness, or just simply to observe the functioning. It may be either.

Positive thought is the construction and accumulation of ideas.

Just because positive thought creates ideas you cannot say that negative thinking is destructive, it plays its part in opening a space for creative understanding.

Positive thought creates ideas, which may become fixed and therefore limiting of further understandings. Negative thinking is using the intellect to dig and to examine to the root of things. (Of course this is also an endless process as even the roots have roots . . . and so on forever.

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Fri, 30 Sep 2011 #30
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
Let us put aside what our friend Paul said. Are you interested in replying to my post no. 22?

Oh, sorry, I did not realise I was to be put aside. Shall I delete?

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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