Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Dvaita (Duality) is not wrong


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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #31
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Davidson wrote:
DUALITY - - - - ARE YOU FOR IT OR AGAINST IT??

how can we be against ourselves?

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #32
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

Ravi Seth wrote:
how can we be against ourselves?

Intellectual understanding is dual and to be in non duality is not to have conflicts.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

This post was last updated by ganesan balachandran Tue, 06 Sep 2011.

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #33
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

ganesan balachandran wrote:
Intellectual understanding is dual and to be in non duality is not to have conflicts.

What is non duaity , gb?

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #34
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

Ravi Seth wrote:
What is non duaity , gb?

definitely not intellectual perception alone or it is just perception alone.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

This post was last updated by ganesan balachandran Tue, 06 Sep 2011.

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #35
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

ganesan balachandran wrote:
definitely not intellectual perception alone or just perception alone

Kindly explain if the same ' is not intellectual perception' or it is 'just perception'or none of these?

This post was last updated by Ravi Seth Tue, 06 Sep 2011.

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #36
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

Ravi Seth wrote:
Kindly explain

It needs intellectual exercise which with that duality may set in. thank you ravi, time for lunch and shall discuss if possible.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #37
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

ganesan balachandran wrote:
It needs intellectual exercise which with that duality may set in.

Good show, gb!:-)

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #38
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

ganesan balachandran wrote:
It needs intellectual exercise which with that duality may set in. thank you ravi, time for lunch and shall discuss if possible.

Duality was all ready set in the day we were born.We know not any other state than a state of duality.What made you think that by explaining your statement for clarity, more duality may not set in? Denying the fact won't release you from the fact nor by explaining it you shall be caught more in it.

In case you have been or are in the state of non-duality kindly say so.Only then your statement will be genuine otherwise not.

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #39
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
Good show, gb!:-)

only a political statement carrying no value.

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #40
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

:
Dr.sudhir sharma wrote: Good show, gb!:-)
Ravi Seth wrote: only a political statement carrying no value.

Oh, and I thought it was theatre criticism!

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #41
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Ravi Seth wrote:
We know not any other state than a state of duality.

They asked the boxer what state he was in after the knockout and he replied, "Wisconsin . . . no, it was Iowa."

But actually Ravi, when I see I am in a continuum, duality falls. Duality is the subjective misunderstanding of willful movement along a continuum, in either direction.

Take good and evil as an example. Good carries its evil with it, doesn't it? The lie always travels in the shadow of the truth. However hot you get, cool is one step back. Does that make temperature a duality?

So as holistic understanding progresses, duality regresses. This too is a continuum.

There are three possible movements, the positive, the negative and the 'reconciling,' which is understanding. They are the three basic universal forces operating in all 'things.' If you do not understand a process you may get caught in it, in which case the perceptions generated will be positional. Duality is positional understanding, which is an extreme and limited case, but one quite general in human consciousness, as it is currently formed. All intellectual understanding is positional. The heart is full of positional feelings and therefore is almost closed to true emotions.

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #42
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

Ravi Seth wrote:
are in the state of non-duality kindly say so.

That is what Paul Davidson asked you in bold letters and you replied intellectually. as for me iam just aware iam in duality.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #43
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

Ravi Seth wrote:
explaining

explaining non duality is duality. it is a fact.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #44
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

Ravi Seth wrote:
Good show, gb!:-)
only a political statement carrying no value.

i could not believe iam so theatrical and political.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #45
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

Ravi Seth wrote:
We know not any other state than a state of duality.

That i understood when you started justifying.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #46
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Davidson wrote:
But actually Ravi, when I see I am in a continuum, duality falls. Duality is the subjective misunderstanding of willful movement along a continuum, in either direction.

You can imagine a number of things and in your imagination you are simply trying to break the prison without knowing where its walls are.

$ 100 to you if you are able to explain your own statement :Duality is the subjective misunderstanding of willful movement along a continuum, in either direction. ( it looks more like a statement from combined course in physics/ chemistry / biology / maths / psychiatry and all the medical sciences combined + "zoo" - logy )

Out of many famous ones , we have another one like yours in my town:"You see the coefficient of the linear is just a position by the hemoglobin of the atmospheric pressure in the country"

Paul Davidson wrote:
Take good and evil as an example. Good carries its evil with it, doesn't it? The lie always travels in the shadow of the truth. However hot you get, cool is one step back. Does that make temperature a duality?

So as holistic understanding progresses, duality regresses. This too is a continuum.

In your foolhardy enthusiasm you ride the wind.

Since when did Good started carrying evil? ... and you also state 'The lie always travels in the shadow of the truth'. not knowing that truth is shadow less .

.............. alas, once i thought you were sharp!

Paul Davidson wrote:
However hot you get, cool is one step back. Does that make temperature a duality?

So as holistic understanding progresses, duality regresses. This too is a continuum.

... and now another one from you.

Oh, God what have I done unto thee?

Paul Davidson wrote:
There are three possible movements, the positive, the negative and the 'reconciling,' which is understanding. They are the three basic universal forces operating in all 'things.' If you do not understand a process you may get caught in it, in which case the perceptions generated will be positional. Duality is positional understanding, which is an extreme and limited case, but one quite general in human consciousness, as it is currently formed. All intellectual understanding is positional. The heart is full of positional feelings and therefore is almost closed to true emotions.

You are still carrying mixture of your old Marxist or should i say Hegelian ideas of Thesis, antithesis synthesis combined with Trimurtian ideas of Brahma Vishnu Mahesha.

you are blaming others of the theft which you are doing every moment but no body will catch you since you are a first rate plagiarist.

You are a good writer and i respect you, paul. I enjoy your writings but in matters like these , .... Sorry Boy.

This post was last updated by Ravi Seth Tue, 06 Sep 2011.

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #47
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

Ravi Seth wrote:
only a political statement carrying no value.

Paul Davidson wrote:
Oh, and I thought it was theatre criticism!

Well! Well! Two birds with no stone! Good show!

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #48
Thumb_img001 Sudhir Sharma India 1989 posts in this forum Offline

ganesan balachandran wrote:
i could not believe iam so theatrical and political.

The self appointed director and the leader can say anything!

I sincerely feel that sometimes you make very clear statements signifying understanding. They are much more to the point here in discussion than the quotes from vedas. Keep it up, man!

FLOW WITH LIFE!

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #49
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 5845 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Davidson wrote: Your post #5:
"I would say that the whole universe is made up of such continuums."

A continuum is a carry-forward of the past or of the already existing. Creation is not a carry-forward as it is action in the present moment. There may be influence on the created by the past or the already in existence, but the moment of creation is entirely new.

Yes, it appears that our universe, a structure of sequence and existence, is a continuum, is opposites, is duality. But the action of creation is not of the universe -- it is before sequence and existence. It seems to me that any "influence" by the past, when it is looked at carefully, is due to a lack of intelligence.

max

This post was last updated by max greene Tue, 06 Sep 2011.

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #50
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

max greene wrote:
A continuum is a carry-forward of the past or of the already existing.

Now you bring time in and the whole thing is totally f***ed.

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #51
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Ravi Seth wrote:
You are still carrying mixture of your old Marxist or should i say Hegelian ideas of Thesis, antithesis synthesis combined with Trimurtian ideas of Brahma Vishnu Mahesha.

Nothing to do with any of them. Sorry, try again. Dialectical claptrap is another thing. And I know nothing of Hindu mythology.

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #52
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Ravi Seth wrote:
$ 100 to you if you are able to explain your own statement :Duality is the subjective misunderstanding of willful movement along a continuum, in either direction. ( it looks more like a statement from combined course in physics/ chemistry / biology / maths / psychiatry and all the medical sciences combined + "zoo" - logy )

Keep your dollars or send them to Obama.

I am saying acts of will create the experience of duality. Duality only exists as a subjective experience. It is based on a misunderstanding which occurs when psychological time and becoming are introduced as factors of action.

Do some work Ravi!! Figure it out.

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Tue, 06 Sep 2011 #53
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Ravi Seth wrote:
Since when did Good started carrying evil?

There is no good and evil outside of human consciousness. invent it according to our conditioning. We create that duality in our minds.

You please explain what YOU mean by 'good,' Ravi.

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Wed, 07 Sep 2011 #54
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
Keep it up, man!

Thank you. i am quoting veda to understand them better in relation to your posts.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

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Wed, 07 Sep 2011 #55
Thumb_tampura ganesan balachandran India 2204 posts in this forum Offline

Dr.sudhir sharma wrote:
The self appointed director and the leader can say anything!

The i mentioned by me includes you, Ravi and me without separation.
gb

We are watching, not waiting, not expecting anything to happen but watching without end. JK

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Wed, 07 Sep 2011 #56
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Davidson wrote:
Now you bring time in and the whole thing is totally f***ed.

:-)

Paul, you understand Max's 'present' , the way he wants to convey and he will understand your 'continuum' - the way you want it to appear.

In short, I see that his present is your continuum.

This post was last updated by Ravi Seth Wed, 07 Sep 2011.

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Wed, 07 Sep 2011 #57
Thumb_avatar Ravi Seth India 1573 posts in this forum Offline

Paul Davidson wrote:
You please explain what YOU mean by 'good,' Ravi.

Only it can be pointed to and cannot be explained .

Negate, and you will have a direct non verbal comprehension of it.

Negation means - 'having no knowledge of it'.

Negate the 'Negator' .

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Wed, 07 Sep 2011 #58
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Ravi Seth wrote:
In short, I see that his present is your continuum.

In short, you understand neither, but you are good at labelling.

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Wed, 07 Sep 2011 #59
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Ravi Seth wrote:
Only it can be pointed to and cannot be explained .

And you are the one who started the thread . . . and also offered me $100 for an explanation. What a sham!!

Ravi Seth wrote:
Negation means - 'having no knowledge of it'.

No, the word for that is 'ignorance.'

Ravi Seth wrote:
Negate the 'Negator' .

Now, this is the the final movement of the dialectic, 'the negation of the negation.' And you accuse me of Hegelianism!!!

Ravi Seth wrote:
Only it can be pointed to and cannot be explained .

Yes, from the start of this thread it was just an assertion, an assertion that since duality exists, it must be there of necessity and cannot be 'wrong.' So, it is this little piece of knowledge that is preventing you from questioning. Your thesis will not entertain its own negation, of course.

And I am questioning, in what was does duality exist? Does it exist at all, outside of the human mind or is it a creation of that mind, valid or not, but a limited mental perception of willed experience?

Ravi Seth wrote:
Negate, and you will have a direct non verbal comprehension of it.

Negate what? What do you want negated, Ravi? Which way to turn?? And if I do come by a non-verbal comprehension of duality, why then could I not put it into words? What would prevent it? We put everything else into words. Are you saying that duality is beyond words - that it is non-material?? Neither mind NOR matter? Are you saying duality is God? Only that which is Sacred cannot be verbalised.

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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Wed, 07 Sep 2011 #60
Thumb_stringio Paul Davidson United Kingdom 3659 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

To me the word 'duality'suggests either dual state of something or a division into conflictive oopposites.

For example, day and night, is that a duality or is there simply a seemless rotation of the Earth before the sun?

From space, the latter would seem to be the case. But if you are down on the planet surface, lost in a rainforest, the subjective experience of day and night becomes dualistic. You welcome the day and fear the night.

Everything applies in the same way - up/down, in/out, hot/cold, rough/smooth, confusion/understanding, etc etc. They only appear as dualities when one is caught in them. It is an imprisoned perspective. Is there up/down in the universe?

But I wanted to get away, far away, from the sterile argument as to whether duality is real or an illusion, which seemed to me to be the basis upon which this thread arose. I am saying it is experience.

But you stick with your dualistic thinking, if you must. The question, "Duality, is it real or illusion?" is itself duality.

"The ego is first and foremost a body ego." S. Freud

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