Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Wim Opdam's Forum Posts

Forum: General Discussion

Displaying posts 1 - 30 of 1398 in total
Topic: On Relationships and Conflict Wed, 16 Oct 2019

One Self wrote: It may sound greedy but what idiot shared about critisisem opened my eyes., .

may not only your eyes but also your heart have opened :-().

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Tue, 08 Oct 2019

One Self wrote: My genuine interest in life is to understand krishnamurti fully. And this site is not helping at all with all the contradictions and silly talks..

My genuine interest is to understand life itself and by questioning what is going on saw at a certain point that what society/the church was/is telling didn't matches what they are doing.

Later in life came upon Krishnamurti and he inspired and still inspires me to also look within. IT'S an on going activity.

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Mon, 07 Oct 2019

Dan McDermott wrote: It seems irresponsible, negligent, that 'kinfonet' has for some reason allowed this general forum to exist without someone who cares about Krishnamurti's work, to be overseeing, moderating, what is being posted here. This is all too childish, it needs to be attended to. Or so it seems to me.

Commentaries on Living Series I | Chapter 30 'Anger'

Anger has that peculiar quality of isolation; like sorrow, it cuts one off, and for the time being, at least, all relationship comes to an end. Anger has the temporary strength and vitality of the isolated. There is a strange despair in anger; for isolation is despair. The anger of disappointment, of jealousy, of the urge to wound, gives a violent release whose pleasure is self-justification. We condemn others, and that very condemnation is a justification of ourselves. Without some kind of attitude, whether of self-righteousness or self-abasement, what are we? We use every means to bolster ourselves up; and anger, like hate, is one of the easiest ways. Simple anger, a sudden flare-up which is quickly forgotten, is one thing; but the anger that is deliberately built up, that has been brewed and that seeks to hurt and destroy, is quite another matter. Simple anger may have some physiological cause which can be seen and remedied; but the anger that is the outcome of a psychological cause is much more subtle and difficult to deal with. Most of us do not mind being angry, we find an excuse for it. Why should we not be angry when there is ill-treatment of another or of ourselves? So we become righteously angry. We never just say we are angry, and stop there; we go into elaborate explanations of its cause. We never just say that we are jealous or bitter, but justify or explain it. We ask how there can be love without jealousy, or say that someone else's actions have made us bitter, and so on.

It is the explanation, the verbalization, whether silent or spoken, that sustains anger, that gives it scope and depth.

P.s.: bolding is mine !

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Sun, 06 Oct 2019

One Self wrote: Wim, There is no thinker,no observer,no analyzer,no watcher. These are all illusions that don't exist. If you want to believe that there is a thinker it is up to you. You are free to believe in any illusion that you want. We have a democracy in here:)

that it is imaginary is yours and only yours.

imaginary is the idea that the thinker and the thought and ego are separate entities, independent of each other.

By the way democracy is an overvalued structure, as if half plus one is right on its side, the source of much rumor.

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Sat, 05 Oct 2019

Wim Opdam wrote:

One Self wrote:

Unfortunately human unity is not possible.

So you are a doom thinker !

One Self wrote:

It is odd after so many years still thinking in term of the thinker! The thinker is an illusion. K says that. But who studies krishnamurti? No one in here!(all ego driven)

Group Discussion 26th December, 1947 | Madras, India

How does the 'thinker' come into being? You are the result of your father and mother. How did you begin to think and feel as a child? You wanted milk, there was a sensation of hunger; then the contact with the bottle or the breast, and the struggle to feed, to grow, and then the toy, the impingement of society on the mind, and gradually, the 'I' comes out. Therefore, it is perception, sensation, contact and the desire from which is 'my mother,' 'my toy,' which grows to 'my bank account', 'my house', and so on. So the thinker, the 'me' comes through perception, contact, sensation and desire from which arises consciousness; the thinker then separates himself, for his own further security, as the high and the low, the high becoming the Paramatman and the low becoming this existence. When this existence is threatened, the thinker can always retire into the more permanent.

For a bit of intelligent someone it is clear that here the entity 'thinker / thought' is/was meant. A good listener needs only half a word, and an ego does not have enough with 60 years of talks and quotes texts that fit its limited understanding.

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Fri, 04 Oct 2019

One Self wrote: Unfortunately human unity is not possible.

So you are a doom thinker !

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Fri, 04 Oct 2019

One Self wrote:

Wim Opdam wrote:

IT'S appears to trouble him and behave like a matchmaker to making us into couple. ;-()

Comparison is an escape from the fact.

From which fact ?

That you behave like a matchmaker ?

That we are not a couple ?

That you are troubled ?

Or that this is not a question of comparison at all ?

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Thu, 03 Oct 2019

One Self wrote: If you are you not intellectually poor you would not needed Jack or anybody else's support.

Thank you for the determination that I'm not intellectually poor, because there is no need for anybody's support.!

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Thu, 03 Oct 2019

Jack Pine wrote:

Why continue to respond to his illogical and ridiculous messages?

Fake news and fake information are the most dangerous sources for incorrect action.

for me, that is the same reason why Krishnaji could continue to talk without judging his listeners for not understanding. I offer my observations so that someone can investigate it.

BUT it is obviously not seen as an gift, an opportunity but as an attack and that's again a reaction of the ego defending him/herself.

Being consciously aware of possible inaccuracy and/or incompletenes, I consciously do not say what he / she is like, but how his/her reactions happens to me.

IT'S appears to trouble him and behave like a matchmaker to making us into couple. ;-()

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Wed, 02 Oct 2019

One Self wrote: Apparently you are already influenced by something..!

Aren't we all ?

One Self wrote: You never made any sense to me other than condemning. I can understand that you are poor intellectually.

Another example of condemning others, like a mirror of your own doing !

One Self wrote: Your hate for English langrage is very obvious.

I'm an autoditact on this, nothing to be ashamed of, in international contacts they appeared to have no problem with the way I'm using it, so to me it seems another false conclusion on your part.

One Self wrote: Are you a nationalist?

I'm in love with the earth and all what's living on it, no specific parts !

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Wed, 02 Oct 2019

One Self wrote: By the way ,I asked wim something and Jack pine(as always ) has to proove to his friends that he read krishnamurti! Now the answer of wim is going to be influenced by Jack's interceptions.

You are free to have the most fantastic ideas.

I am very capable and free enough to be influenced neither by you nor by Jack, and very capable of my own perceptions.

such as your so-called anonymous identity. It is as transparent as the clothing of the narcissistic emperor, showing a completely naked working ego!

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Wed, 02 Oct 2019

One Self wrote: Don't we all live in the past? and is there any freedom from the past? why is the past such a living and dominant factor in our life?

and these are all borrowed words - or have they been stolen ? - from someone from the past and the same person blames others for living in the past.

Wake up, man, and don't always go for the pot to blame the kettle for turning black.

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Tue, 01 Oct 2019

One Self wrote: to throw around your judgment without understanding and examination? ...? .....? Etc...

It is not strange to me that you are the only one who complains about my capability of (understanding and use of language.

perhaps you should become aware of your own limitations.

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Tue, 01 Oct 2019

One Self wrote: life is contradiction and pain.

one-liners without any context is like a mantra without any meaning!

such as the global hit: "We are the world" only wasted words!

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Mon, 30 Sep 2019

One Self wrote: K negated his early works. He later spoke against masters and authorities.

What then is the reason to quote him here, that shows contradiction !

Everything is moving, so is his use of words, but Is it essentially meaning something else ?

Our ancestors language is also no longer ours, but we can still penetrate what they tried to communicate.

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Sun, 29 Sep 2019

jamie f wrote:

Jack Pine wrote:

if you are really interested in what K has to say you first have to see how your own conditioning is blocking you from understanding what is being said.

Now, here's the thing. When I was sorting out my books for sale I came across a pamphlet from the early days published by the Star Publishing Trust.

Early Writings Collection of J. Krishnamurti Early Writings, 1927, 1928 and 1929 Foreword to Early Writings

With the death of his brother Nityananda, on the 13th of December 1925, Jiddu Krishnamurti found himself in deep personal crisis, perhaps the most painful episode of his life. While in the throes of this great sorrow, he struggled to understand what he was going through. In fact, the death of Nitya appears to have been a decisive turning point in the spiritual evolution of Krishnamurti. Nitya's death served as a springboard for Krishnamurti, catapulting him towards his final liberation. By 1927, at the age of 31, his spiritual development is complete and the forceful and overwhelming impact of this recent mystical experience is visibly evident in the immediate years thereafter. It comes through in the language, vocabulary and style of this period.

Krishnamurti´s language in this early period was in flux and changed drastically from year to year. He introduced new modes of expressions - the Kingdom of Happiness, Liberation, Truth, Voice of Intuition and Individuality - that were soon dropped and replaced in turn. Indeed, Krishnamurti is purported to have categorized his talks and writings before 1933 as "patchy" and wished that the early writings are ignored. However a closer examination reveals that although his language was evolving, the essence of his teachings remained consistent from this period until his death. With remarkable rapidity and in direct response to misinterpretation and translation on the part of his audience, Krishnamurti began "cleansing" his words and so developed the lean, precise and contemporary language style that he became renowned for.

The early works not only shed light on the origins of the central, underlying concepts of the teachings but also reveal why he felt it necessary later to adopt his trademark, stark, non-compromising stance. However, if examined with the benefit of having read the later works, the emotive nature of these early works need not cover over the fundamental insights that Krishnamurti's teachings embody. On the contrary, if we are wary of the inherent danger of misinterpretation, this material affords a rare glimpse into a mind that has only just discovered the “Kingdom of Happiness”.

In these early stages Krishnamurti spontaneously describes what he is experiencing and attempts to communicate the kind of mind required to achieve this state of "true happiness". He uses words in a natural and "innocent" fashion as he is yet to discover the important role his choice of words will play. The value of these early works lies in this “impassioned” delivery. Most importantly they open up the "hidden how" that Krishnamurti so deliberately ensconced in the teachings later on.

Certain terms in the early works seem to be at first diametrically opposed to the fundamentals of the teachings as we know them today. Specifically, Krishnamurti spoke then of the importance of having "pure desire", absolute certainty, true memory - all the while emphasizing that one’s “efforts” have to be based on understanding rather than on conviction or agreement. All in all, the early writings provide a vital clue in solving one of the basic conundrums of the teachings - namely, how it is that, "out of total inaction, there is an action that is tremendously positive, but not in the sense of the positive and the negative

P.s.: Jack, Jamie and all interested: Take also this into account.

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Tue, 17 Sep 2019

One Self Quoting K. wrote: "To have united thought, and so action, there must be agreement, accord, and to have agreement seems to be very difficult.

Ojai 3rd Talk in the Oak Grove 19th April, 1936

so you see once again that every word must be viewed in its full context. It is clear that in # 23 reference is made to 'agreement' in the ordinary sense and that Krishnaji makes clear that this is in fact not an 'agreement' at all.

you could also state that there is a common wordless agreement about the importance of "The Teaching", but this is lost in the wording of it through individual interpretation.

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Fri, 13 Sep 2019

One Self wrote: Only fools disagree over facts..

yes, it is good not to avoid these facts:

it's not at all dificult to find agreement, that's the same source for the founding of the dividing society as we know like nationalities, capitalisme, communism and beliefs.

so don't look at your surrounding but at your inside, what's your motive to do what you're doing ?

..

disagreement is a conclusion. pointing at something else, something essential, it is a gift.

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Thu, 12 Sep 2019

disagreement is a conclusion. pointing at something else, something essential, it is a gift.

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Thu, 12 Sep 2019

One Self wrote: Is it so hard to agree.!?

it's not at all dificult to find agreement, that's the same source for the founding of the dividing society as we know like nationalities, capitalisme, communism and beliefs.

so don't look at your surrounding but at your inside, what's your motive to do what you're doing ?

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Thu, 05 Sep 2019

Patricia Hemingway wrote: For more than a week, the silence was golden.

It was and because some SELF is misusing this topic for his on going argument with Jack I'll would close this topic if i could.

Topic: Meetups in Brussels Mon, 26 Aug 2019

Hi Sanjeev

You can find the diffrent opportunities on the Belgian website: http://www.krishnamurti.be.

you have to take into account the fact that Belgium in the Brussels region is bilingual: French and Flemish (Dutch) and mostly the flemish part is more english minded.

I hope to have served you with this information.

Kind regards Wim

Topic: How does one go to the very source of thought? Sun, 25 Aug 2019

One Self wrote:

Wim Opdam wrote:

the seeing is the doing.

Have you realized that by your self or it is an extract from k which in the second case it is merely words and is useless?

words in themselves always remain worthless as long as they are not looked through and the true meaning is revealed!

as long as ones self, my self, your self or anyone elses is involved, this meaning will not produce any action.

Topic: How does one go to the very source of thought? Sun, 25 Aug 2019

One Self wrote:

Wim Opdam wrote:

the seeing is the doing.

Have you realized that by your self or it is an extract from k which in the second case it is merely words and is useless?

words in themselves always remain worthless as long as they are not looked through and the true meaning is revealed!

as long as ones self, my self, your self or anyone elses is involved, this meaning will not produce any action.

Topic: How does one go to the very source of thought? Fri, 23 Aug 2019

One Self wrote: I am willing to sacrifice oneself if jack is thrown out of this site I will delete oneself also for the sake of Krishnamurti and the world. And I mean it.

the seeing is the doing and not depending on anything or anyone and it is never a sacrifice to do what one has to do and as I've said earlyer in this thread: " the Teaching is not in need of attackers or defenders but of understanders " ! The used language is only proof of the actual fact that One Self as well as Jack are in one of the first two categories and certainly not in the last one.

i accept the fact that i'm possibly wrong in this observation

every reader must and can determine that for himself, neither I nor anyone else is needed for that, only a clear perception is sufficient!

Topic: How does one go to the very source of thought? Wed, 21 Aug 2019

One Self wrote: We have a very poor audience in here:)

if someone compares himself with the rest and apparently feels himself on a stage, such someone only sees and hears poor audience, that makes sense, because such someone only sees and hear the self ! ;-()

Topic: The Future Of Humanity Sun, 07 Jul 2019

jamie f wrote: I'm just saying that it ain't over till the fat lady sings, Wim.

Oke

jamie f wrote: There are some very clever people around and they're not just going to sit around and do nothing over the coming decades and centuries

That sounds to me that I'm not responsible and other very clever people will find a way out. An escape with faith and hope.

the only thing I can do is not contribute to the mess in the world. and if more people were willing to do so, not in word but in deed, that would make a difference alone.

And let's face it, the Truth needs no defenders, nor challengers, only those who understand.

Topic: The Future Of Humanity Sat, 06 Jul 2019

jamie f wrote: The future of humanity is assured. Resilient and resourceful we will adapt and survive the unfolding catastrophe

I'm not at all sure about that Jamie.

from the previous discussion it is abundantly clear that even among the K. interested parties there is no unequivocal understanding and considering the future is now we should certainly not create a bright spot of hope!

Topic: The Future Of Humanity Sat, 29 Jun 2019

One Self wrote: When do we get it? The future is indeed now.

no one will ever get it, someone cannot do what you do when this is deeply understood, it is up to you to understand and not blame others for their imperfection and/ or lack of understanding this is only nonsense talk.

p.s. I am at home and July 8 get the result of the bioptions taken, last impressions are much better than the first.

Topic: The Future Of Humanity Thu, 27 Jun 2019

Jack Pine wrote: Wim, I am really tired of this guy's (one self) bullshit. He consistently comes on here with the most ignorant comments and opinions about what he thinks K is "actually" saying. He's an under educated moron who tries to dominate this forum with his idiotic posts.

Jack,

why should you worry about situations like that - that's what is - sorry to say - but that is pure energy waste.

Once i was wrongly accused of an act that I also find was terrible, initially I let it pass me by, but when I noticed in my surroundings that people started to believe it, an action suddenly came that apparently was so right that the gossip stopped.

Jack Pine wrote: We're screwed as a species and we did it to ourselves.

I'll say we *do it ourselves by continuing doing things Tand a long way starts with a first step.

Displaying posts 1 - 30 of 1398 in total