Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Commentaries on living

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Thu, 11 Jun 2009 #1
Thumb_deleted_user_med Dappling Light India 99 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

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Krishnamurti has written a series of three books called 'Commentaries on living 1-2-3'.

Since everyone has a story to share, why should members not write their own commentaries on living in light of Krishnamurti's teachings?

This is a topic to discuss your real life incidents/stories and how you reacted, how your reactions changed after reading K, your inner thoughts on various life issues.

In other words, this is a group blog!

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

This post was last updated by Dappling Light (account deleted) Sat, 27 Jun 2009.

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Thu, 11 Jun 2009 #2
Thumb_copy_of_image0065 Ramesh G India 40 posts in this forum Offline

With some interest I started looking at people today on the train while going to office and on the road while taking a stroll. None of them looked around; they seemed to be immersed in their own worlds. In them I saw myself-- myself being my desires, my anxieties and my mechanicalness. As I looked my interest in them deepened. I feel that in looking at others intensively, relentlessly, and more importantly effortlessly, we liberate ourselves from human consciousness.

Freedom from the known is Attention in the Unknown: Krishnamurti J

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Thu, 11 Jun 2009 #3
Thumb_deleted_user_med Dappling Light India 99 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Thanks Ramesh G. That was a great
post. I really was not sure when this
idea came to my mind how it would take
off. But after seeing your post - I am
very positive it will be no less
interesting than a new york times best
seller. Keep posting.

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

This post was last updated by Dappling Light (account deleted) Fri, 12 Jun 2009.

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Fri, 12 Jun 2009 #4
Thumb_deleted_user_med H P Shukla India 6 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

I was walking through the woods one evening. A few days ago someone had thrown a question, ?what is death, what do you know about it?? Instead of responding at once, one must have unconsciously held it somewhere, for the question emerged again that day in the woods. What happens when the self dies? Suddenly, without an effort ? and there was no fantasizing or hallucination ? the self was gone. Everything changed. The trees, the meandering path, the sound of the wind, the hamlets at a distance, all were bathed in a light that was fresh, that was innocent. The grisly colours with which the self paints the Fact, the outer objective reality, had disappeared. One breathed freedom. It was there. It lasted a moment, but in that moment there was eternity. The mind returns chewing at the ?experience?, desiring more of it. But one has learnt not to pay much attention to this little fellow, mind ? or is it self, one wonders. It is not a question of memory ? on which the self thrives ? but once you have been there, you know to where you belong. No, it?s not the desire of the self for the Other either; you have seen the irrelevance of self and put it aside. What remains is a fragrance, a silent unarticulated prayer to the Unknown ? but these are ineffective, misleading words: verbalisation of something non-verbal, like love.

"Care not for time and success. Act out thy part, whether it be to fail or to prosper."

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Fri, 12 Jun 2009 #5
Thumb_deleted_user_med Dappling Light India 99 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Truly poetic. As they say, expression of an experience frees the
brain and puts it out there, on
canvas, like an image.

Hope to see more such astounding
commentaries on living from you!@HPS

Non-members can join my forum and narrate
any incident or story pertaining to
life and living, in their own style, be
it modern or traditional. You do not have
to be a poet or Krishnamurti
to express yourself! :-)

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

This post was last updated by Dappling Light (account deleted) Fri, 12 Jun 2009.

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Sat, 13 Jun 2009 #6
Thumb_copy_of_image0065 Ramesh G India 40 posts in this forum Offline

That's a delightful writing from Mr Shukla. A beatiful prose, a beatifuI poetry and a beatiful insight too. I enjoyed it thoroughly. On that note I would like to share with you all what I felt yesterday.

With a troubled mind, but with eyes open, I was walking toward my office. The mind was troubled because it was seeking the meaning of life and could not find it. At that moment I saw two youth running, intent on catching a bus. I also saw a poor salesman carrying his wares ( I don't exactly remember what he was carrying) eager to sell them to make some money. Maybe to feed his children or to pay the rent (These are my afterthoughts). After I passed him by I saw a beggar sitting hesitantly stretching his hand to receive money. Upon entering the office, I saw a bird flying beyond the earthly limits.

Can I say I'm the seeker of life's meaning, the guys who were running to catch the bus, that poor salesman, that dreamy beggar and also the bird that was flying? I don't know when I forgot my trouble and those people I saw.

Troubles may come, but Life is beautiful.

Freedom from the known is Attention in the Unknown: Krishnamurti J

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Sat, 13 Jun 2009 #7
Thumb_deleted_user_med Dappling Light India 99 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Dear Ramesh, You wrote what I wanted to write. I live in India, and see the same things. Poverty, Disability, Starvation, Struggle.

It is not possible to be rightly related to everything and everyone unless one is free from fear and sorrow, completely. Thanks for the post.

See the K quote I added on "Starvation and War" in the thread :

Click here: Thought of the Day

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

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Sat, 13 Jun 2009 #8
Thumb_deleted_user_med Linda Thorlakson United States 42 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Keshni Sahni wrote:
Since everyone has a story to share, why should members not write their own commentaries on living in light of Krishnamurti's teachings?

As a newbe to this network, I was absolutely delighted to stumble upon the above invitation. I find it difficult to imagine how to discuss K without conveying upon him the status of expert, teacher, or master (which he would have been the first to reject). He was always counseling not to automatically agree with what he had to say, but, rather, to listen and then go into it for yourself. I am very grateful for the opportunity to do that here.

The "Commentaries on Living" series influenced me most profoundly through the way that K would set the scene at the beginning of each commentary. His description was seamlessly poetic regardless of whether he was describing a sunrise or sunset, health or illness, beggars singing or the roar of airplane engines, birds chattering or rattling buses, laughing or crying, poverty or wealth, green valleys or polluted rivers. By dispensing with adjectives depicting good and bad, beautiful and ugly, the scenes he created never failed to fill me with a sense of serenity and wholeness.

Now, whether I am walking through the streets of the city or along trails in the park, I find that it is possible to find serenity, wholeness, and appreciation in either place once I let go of my attachment to adjectives depicting good and bad, beautiful and ugly. I can equally appreciate the redwood trees lining the trails in the park and the garbage strewn along the side of the road for their capacity, through my awareness of them, to anchor me in the here-and-now.

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Sat, 13 Jun 2009 #9
Thumb_deleted_user_med Dappling Light India 99 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Thanks Linda. Do share your insights and experiences here.

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

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Sun, 14 Jun 2009 #10
Thumb_patricia_1_2016_copy Patricia Hemingway Australia 46 posts in this forum Offline

I suggest it is important to see "Commentaries on Living" in the context of when it was written in the journey of K's life, as indeed everything in the teaching is most wisely seen within its context.

For me, K was at his most clear and austere at the end of his life, when he had finally negated all that the self can find security in, or turn into an experience.

This post was last updated by Patricia Hemingway Sun, 14 Jun 2009.

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Sun, 14 Jun 2009 #11
Thumb_deleted_user_med H P Shukla India 6 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Thanks Keshni and Ramesh for appreciating that piece. It?s good to have people around with whom one can communicate; as Keshni pointed out expression frees the brain from the residue of memory. Ramesh?s last post shows how the act of watching puts the little self in abeyance. There is nothing much else that one can do except watching all that goes on inside and outside, which is so central to K?s teachings and which he demonstrated in everyday living. One of my teachers told me some 25 years ago to go for a state which he termed as ?awareness of being aware?. I am still groping for a clue to that state!!! Awareness dissolves the tentacles of ego, the machinery of becoming, and brings one face to face with being, a state inherently suffused with joy and love. This is not repeating K?ism. I keep my talks confined to what I have discovered or deeply felt. When I read other people?s write-up, I bring all my art of listening to it and sometime can hear what the writer left unsaid. It?s my good fortune to be part of Kinfonet community.

"Care not for time and success. Act out thy part, whether it be to fail or to prosper."

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Sun, 14 Jun 2009 #12
Thumb_deleted_user_med Dappling Light India 99 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Patricia wrote:
suggest it is important to see "Commentaries on Living" in the context of when it was written in the journey of K's life, as indeed everything in the teaching is most wisely seen within its context.

Patricia, Your point is very well taken. However we do note that Krishnamurti wrote "Krishnamurti to himself" and "Krishnamurti's Journal" towards the end of his life, in the same spirit as "Commentaties on Living..

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

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Sun, 14 Jun 2009 #13
Thumb_deleted_user_med Katy Pompilis United Kingdom 1 post in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Keshni Sahni wrote:
The grisly colours with which the self paints the Fact, the outer objective reality, had disappeared.

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Sun, 14 Jun 2009 #14
Thumb_deleted_user_med Dappling Light India 99 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Monsoon season has begun. The scorching indian summer is ending and there is freshness in the air. The earth is smelling good and it may rain any moment.

We are walking through the crowded streets to Anurika's house. Fruit and flower vendors and bangle sellers have made it difficult to fing parking. Smell of mangoes and marigolds was strong in the air.

Anurika was playing in her mother's lap, moving her arms and legs vigorously, occasionally stopping and starting again. As the breeze entered the window and touched her eyes, she smiled. World is probably a big colorful blob for her. She is two months old. A tear will fall off my eyes when they leave abroad next week.

Emotions take deep root in man's mind and create misery. A meaningless life suddenly springs into meaning when they don't take those roots.

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

This post was last updated by Dappling Light (account deleted) Tue, 21 Jul 2009.

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Sun, 14 Jun 2009 #15
Thumb_deleted_user_med Linda Thorlakson United States 42 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Keshni Sahni wrote:
When I read other people?s write-up, I bring all my art of listening to it and sometime can hear what the writer left unsaid.

I'm a little confused (nothing new for me). Although I believe I quoted the above from H P Shukla's post, my "live preview" attributes it to Keshni Sahni. Regardless of who wrote it, I was favorably affected by it on several levels.

First, I've been wondering lately if, through bringing far greater awareness to the sounds of others and the world around me, my own continual chatter might get so frustrated (with falling upon deaf ears) that it gives up without any effort on my part to silence it.

Second, I have a tendency to use TOO-MANY-WORDS to assure that the listener/reader fully understands what I am trying to convey. I'm thinking what a shame it is for me to leave nothing unsaid (after all, that's most likely where the greatest value in what I wish to convey lies . . . in that area which allows the listeners/readers to try it on for themselves).

So . . . many thanks to you (I'm pretty sure it was H P) for your post. Not only did what you had to say have great value for me, but, what you left unsaid, gave me plenty of room to try it on for myself.

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Sun, 14 Jun 2009 #16
Thumb_deleted_user_med Dappling Light India 99 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

There is a technical problem with citations.

Linda, Can you explain what you mean by "Trying it on"? Is it imitation?

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

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Sun, 14 Jun 2009 #17
Thumb_deleted_user_med Linda Thorlakson United States 42 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Keshni Sahni wrote:
Linda, Can you explain what you mean by "Trying it on"? Is it imitation?

That's a really good question, Keshni. I can see how it might sound like imitation is what I mean, but it's not. By "trying it on" I think I mean the same thing that K does when he counsels not to agree with what he says, but to go into it for yourself.

So, when I use too many words (which I'm certain I'm doing in this very instant), I think I'm trying to coach my listener as to where to find the value in what I have to say. While my intentions are good, I'm probably limiting any potential value in the process.

Instead of saying . . . "hey . . . here's some cloth. . . I was able to make something really cool out of it . . . maybe you can too" I have a tendency to tell listeners/readers exactly what to make with the cloth.

Yeah . . . that was a GREAT question, Keshni. Thanks for asking it.

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Sun, 14 Jun 2009 #18
Thumb_deleted_user_med H P Shukla India 6 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

When my teacher asked me to go for "the awareness of being aware" and I struggled to find out what he meant by it all these years, have I been 'imitating' or simply exploring?

"Care not for time and success. Act out thy part, whether it be to fail or to prosper."

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Mon, 15 Jun 2009 #19
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Sorry Keshni, I will not rain on your parade, except to say that the difference is that K is commenting on living. Is that the same as expressing self?

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Mon, 15 Jun 2009 #20
Thumb_deleted_user_med Dappling Light India 99 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

haha, no. obviously.
But there is distinct seeing that offers new insights. We are looking at the collective and then the individual.

What do you do when you are free from all experience? Is not the so-called self-expression spontaneous ? Is there any effort or expectation involved? or what is it in your opinion? How do you feel about living teaching of K in day to day life? In your relationship? Not only with a woman. but the neighbor, the shopkeeper, that stranger, that cop, the government, the school, boss may be, the colleague...We want to see all that here. If you will.

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

This post was last updated by Dappling Light (account deleted) Mon, 15 Jun 2009.

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Mon, 15 Jun 2009 #21
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Keshni Sahni wrote:

haha, no. obviously.
But there is distinct seeing that offers new insights. We are looking at the collective and then the individual.

What do you do when you are free from all experience? Is not the so-called self-expression spontaneous ? Is there any effort or expectation involved? or what is it in your opinion? How do you feel about living teaching of K in day to day life? In your relationship? Not only with a woman. but the neighbor, the shopkeeper, that stranger, that cop, the government, the school, boss may be, the colleague...We want to see all that here. If you will.


;o) But you do, in my posts here at kinfonet. My whole life plays out in these forums. My encounters with people all day are filled with childish selfish immaturity. Why do I want to fill the K forums with all that non-sense? And besides, most of what people are saying here are self promoting lies anyway. (Patricia is really gonna let me have it for that one).

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Mon, 15 Jun 2009 #22
Thumb_deleted_user_med Linda Thorlakson United States 42 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

H P Shukla wrote:
When my teacher asked me to go for "the awareness of being aware" and I struggled to find out what he meant by it all these years, have I been 'imitating' or simply exploring?

Hmmm . . . VERY interesting question . . . one that invites more questions than answers (as the best exploratory questions do).

It seems to me that, if the intention is to go for ?the awareness of being aware? (due to the teacher?s suggestion that this is a good thing to strive for), then this intention may very well be a form of imitation. If, however, the struggle is not so much to do what the teacher has asked, but rather to find out for yourself if it is even possible to do what the teacher has suggested (meaning: Is it even possible to be aware of being aware?), then it seems to me that the struggle is more one of exploration than imitation. That it is more a matter of not just taking the teacher?s word for it, but listening to the teacher and then going into it for yourself.

I?m thinking that maybe being aware of being aware is similar to dreaming that you?re dreaming. Maybe dreaming that you?re dreaming removes you from the immediacy of your dream in the same way that being aware of your awareness removes you from the immediacy of your awareness (then again, maybe not).

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Mon, 15 Jun 2009 #23
Thumb_deleted_user_med H P Shukla India 6 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Linda Thorlakson wrote:
I?m thinking that maybe being aware of being aware is similar to dreaming that you?re dreaming.

My poser was only to clarify the difference between imitation and exploration, and ?the awareness of being aware? was thrown in as illustration because I had mentioned it in an earlier post. When I am reading a serious text, say Heidegger or any other name you like, and I try to figure out what the fellow means, enter into an interior dialogue with the author, I am on the path of exploration. But when I accept Marx, Darwin or Freud as gospel truths and see the reality coloured through their lenses, I am imitating and become a second-hand person. It makes little difference who I imitate ? K or Christ or Buddha. But since you broached the other business, allow me to point out that your observations seem rather off the mark. There is a famous verse of Ghalib which says, ?Those who dream they are awake are still dreaming? (Hain Khwab mein hunoz jo jaage hain khwab mein ? for those who know Urdu/Hindi). Now that you want to crack this awareness thing ? I haven?t done it so far ? here is what I have managed so far. First, there is the stage we all are familiar with when one is always thinking, reasoning, analysing; dreaming, planning, fantasizing... in it there is no awareness. When one is aware the mind fellow takes a back seat ? it may continue for sometime with its antics, but eventually makes its exit ? and one watches it as one would watch a monkey across the window. What happens to awareness, in what manner does it get transfigured, when one is able to watch it with a similar calm indifference? I have no clue. Now, these are the inevitable stages of ?the Process?... what you think about it or how you decide to respond to it is utterly irrelevant, sheer absurdity of a hallucinating mind. It is certainly not what you think about it.

"Care not for time and success. Act out thy part, whether it be to fail or to prosper."

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Mon, 15 Jun 2009 #24
Thumb_yinyang_fishies_large rachMiel ... United States 3 posts in this forum Offline

thank you, keshni, for creating this Insights forum and particularly this topic within the forum. :-) i very much enjoy reading people's personal insights on life; it teaches me a great deal and helps me feel connected to others.

i am drawn to specifics, unique entities and experiences. this person, this flower, this insight. i am also drawn to how these unique entities are, in essence, deeply interconnected. one without the other is just half the picture for me. since krishnamurti forums tend to be generality/abstraction heavy, i welcome the balance afforded by the specificness/concreteness of this forum. :-)

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Mon, 15 Jun 2009 #25
Thumb_deleted_user_med Dappling Light India 99 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Thanks Rachmiel. Welcome to the forum. Do share your experiences, insights and thoughts.

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

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Mon, 15 Jun 2009 #26
Thumb_deleted_user_med Linda Thorlakson United States 42 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

rachMiel ... wrote:
since krishnamurti forums tend to be generality/abstraction heavy, i welcome the balance afforded by the specificness/concreteness of this forum. :-)

Thank you, rachMiel, for expressing my sentiments so much better than I ever could have myself (and thanks again to you Keshni).

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Tue, 16 Jun 2009 #27
Thumb_deleted_user_med Linda Thorlakson United States 42 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

H P Shukla wrote:
When I am reading a serious text, say Heidegger or any other name you like, and I try to figure out what the fellow means, enter into an interior dialogue with the author, I am on the path of exploration. But when I accept Marx, Darwin or Freud as gospel truths and see the reality coloured through their lenses, I am imitating and become a second-hand person. It makes little difference who I imitate ? K or Christ or Buddha.

Thank you for your thoughtful post, HP. The above is a much better explanation than I ever could have provided myself of how I too perceive the distinction between imitation and exploration.

H P Shukla wrote:
But since you broached the other business, allow me to point out that your observations seem rather off the mark. There is a famous verse of Ghalib which says, ?Those who dream they are awake are still dreaming?

Yes. My comparison of awareness of awareness and dreaming about dreaming was off-target in terms of expressing what I was trying to express. I think I was just trying to raise the possibility that one?s awareness may very well be dilluted by bringing ones focus to the awareness.

H P Shukla wrote:
First, there is the stage we all are familiar with when one is always thinking, reasoning, analysing; dreaming, planning, fantasizing... in it there is no awareness.

Yes . . . it is so easy to get lost in the above isn?t it? For me, the moment I become aware that I?m thinking, reasoning, analysing, dreaming, planning, fantasizing, etc. , I?m also aware of my choice to continue being attached to the above, or to become more available to the here-and-now. Although, for whatever reason, I often DO choose to continue with that which takes me out of the present, my awareness that I?m no longer in residing in the present seems to open a door to allow me back in.

H P Shukla wrote:
Now, these are the inevitable stages of ?the Process?...

Hmmm . . . I wonder . . . is awareness a process? You and I are both talking about it as if it were, but isn?t a process always of time? (as in: first you do this and then you do that, etc.). Isn?t a process a means of trying to be something that you are not right now (meaning: I?m not aware in this moment, so I need to do this in the next to achieve awareness). While it?s easier for me to attempt to achieve awareness when I think of it as a process, I kind of like the idea that it?s not. That way it feels available to me in each and every moment of each and every day and not dependant upon me doing ?this? first in order to get to ?that.?

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Tue, 16 Jun 2009 #28
Thumb_deleted_user_med H P Shukla India 6 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Linda Thorlakson wrote:
is awareness a process?

I am referring to 'the process' as it is used in K's context - see for example his notebooks and journals, or biographies. It is something that happens to you, without any effort on your side or rather in spite of you. Awareness is something like that. You CAN watch all that happens around you - within and without. But watching is not awareness; it prepares the ground, makes you ready so that when awareness happens you are mature enough to receive it. Awareness is when the observer is not, to use a K expression. While in watching, it is always the observer with its particular conditioning who is always seeing, judging, interpreting. Notice how one identifies a human being as rich, poor, cultured, uncouth, white, black, handsome, ugly, good, bad....; also note the accompanying feelings of pity, sympathy, antipathy, revulsion, or some other sweet sugar-coated stuff... What one is seeing is not the Fact but only the structures of one's conditioned self. All this is not awareness. This is mental gymnastics which helps you build mental muscles, so that the mind can handle when the process - in this case, Awareness - happens, and not run away like some neurotic, or become crazy. You never know what Awareness is going to reveal. That's why it never happens till you are ready to handle it. If it happened to everyone, society would go to pieces; there would be no money, no business, no politics, no war - the whole human circus would come to a dead halt. That's why it never happens to everyone. Nature has her own safety devices. You can't have power, riches, sex and the Sacred at the same time. You can't worship God and Mammon at the same time, can't have light and darkness, truth and falsehood in the same cup. You can't be sane and mad at once. That's why it's so easy to remain rational, intellectual and discuss K's teachings on this forum or the other. To live it is to approach the borderline of..... All the best, HP

"Care not for time and success. Act out thy part, whether it be to fail or to prosper."

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Tue, 16 Jun 2009 #29
Thumb_original_avatar max greene United States 141 posts in this forum Offline

Linda,
"I?m thinking that maybe being aware of being aware is similar to dreaming that you?re dreaming. Maybe dreaming that you?re dreaming removes you from the immediacy of your dream in the same way that being aware of your awareness removes you from the immediacy of your awareness (then again, maybe not)."

Awareness is when you take away the "I." The "I" is a thought construct and is passive. It can't do anything. Awareness is simply sensing--if you don't sense something, you can't be aware of it. The only entity that can be aware of anything is the living physical organism with its brain/mind.

Once one is aware of something--senses something--is it necessary, then, to begin thinking? If one wants to continue exploring and finding out, it is essential that he continues to sense and to be aware. To think is merely to call forth memories and has nothing to do with being aware of what is before you.

max

This post was last updated by max greene Tue, 16 Jun 2009.

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Tue, 16 Jun 2009 #30
Thumb_stringio nick carter United States 211 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Awareness, for all of its totality and immediacy, is inarticulate and non-reflective. Without language, thought, you can't know that you're aware and therefore can't know anything about awareness.

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