Krishnamurti & the Art of Awakening
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Is there an ending to search?

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Tue, 09 Jun 2009 #1
Thumb_deleted_user_med Dappling Light India 99 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

What was your experience with truth-seeking?

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

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Tue, 09 Jun 2009 #2
Thumb_img_7089_copy Eve G. Indonesia 6 posts in this forum Offline

Hi, experience is not truth and there is nothing to seek, truth never got lost :)

The nature of the change from disorder is silence.

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Wed, 10 Jun 2009 #3
Thumb_deleted_user_med Dappling Light India 99 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

How is it related to love / compassion?

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

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Wed, 10 Jun 2009 #4
Thumb_img_7089_copy Eve G. Indonesia 6 posts in this forum Offline

Keshni Sahni wrote:

How is it related to love / compassion?


I am sorry I am not sure I understand the question. How is what realted to love and compassion?

Experience? Search? Experience is not love and a search indicates a movemet in time. Going from here to there....truth does not exist in time does it? If it does how can it be true?

In experience there is memory. Experience implys memory. Memory is time the past. So any experience is the past trying to find truth...The inquiry is NOW and if one uses negation it means looking for the false and letting it go. What is left maybe true?

The nature of the change from disorder is silence.

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Wed, 10 Jun 2009 #5
Thumb_deleted_user_med Dappling Light India 99 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Eve Goodmon wrote:
looking for the false and letting it go

What happens after that ? Is there a state of love?

Is it possible to love when one is not free from the false?

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

This post was last updated by Dappling Light (account deleted) Wed, 10 Jun 2009.

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Thu, 11 Jun 2009 #6
Thumb_img_7089_copy Eve G. Indonesia 6 posts in this forum Offline

Keshni Sahni wrote:

Eve Goodmon wrote:
looking for the false and letting it go

What happens after that ? Is there a state of love?

Is it possible to love when one is not free from the false?


You actualy answered your own question? Is there love where there is an image as the past? If you remember....the hurt form yesterday how can one love?

Love implys a state free of memory of the past. The past is the false right? Truth/love can only exist NOW it does not exist in time?

The nature of the change from disorder is silence.

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Thu, 11 Jun 2009 #7
Thumb_deleted_user_med Dappling Light India 99 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

It is not the question of being hurt in the past or something. It is the question of occupation. Space. There is no space (or time) psychologically, in the mind, to love because mind is occupied. Very little memory is required for practical purposes. Even if you store all the encyclopedias in the brain it won't take much space. But things like anxiety and search and confusion do occupy all the space.

There is no memory whatsoever after being free except the practical and technical. Hence a state of constant love. It is like retirement, without becoming inactive.

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

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Thu, 11 Jun 2009 #8
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

No memory what-so-ever, except the practical or technical?
Where do those other memories go, once one is free? Do they leave the mind? Or does one simply not mistake the thinking mechanism, for a soul?

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Thu, 11 Jun 2009 #9
Thumb_deleted_user_med Dappling Light India 99 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Keshni Sahni wrote:
There is no memory whatsoever after being free except the practical and technical.

It is like writing on water.

Randal Shacklett wrote:
Or does one simply not mistake the thinking mechanism, for a soul?

But is not memory divided - purely technical versus psychological?

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

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Thu, 11 Jun 2009 #10
Thumb_copy_of_image0065 Ramesh G India 40 posts in this forum Offline

My honest answer to your question on truth-seeking is this: Some 25 years ago I started my search without knowing anything. After those fruitful years of struggle I've come to a point now: I KNOW that I really don't know anything. But the situation is not hopeless; I'm happy in the knowledge of my ignorace. One thing I can say with confidence: the moment you seek truth, you are a step away from it.

Sahni I'm sorry to say that Love and Compassion are mere words. Even without those words we can live a dynamic life.

Freedom from the known is Attention in the Unknown: Krishnamurti J

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Thu, 11 Jun 2009 #11
Thumb_deleted_user_med Dappling Light India 99 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Ramesh,

One direct pointed question to you:

Do you love? Is there love in your life? As a state of being not some sort of romance or entertainment. If there is no love, that means the search process has not ended.

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

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Thu, 11 Jun 2009 #12
Thumb_deleted_user_med Dappling Light India 99 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Please debate - I could be wrong. I do not know how I can provide that vitality to debate actively and find the truth in it.

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

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Fri, 12 Jun 2009 #13
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

I don't see that useing thought in a manner that is beneficial and adequate to the task(technology,etc.), and then useing thought in a manner that is not adequate to the task asked of it(relationship,love,etc.), constitutes a division of thought, but many seem to think that it does.

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Fri, 12 Jun 2009 #14
Thumb_deleted_user_med Dappling Light India 99 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Technical memory is like give and take, add and delete. It does not occupy much space.

Experiences, on the other hand, consisting of rich imagery and visualization, spring from a different section of brain altogether. Tradition, culture, ideas, and past create a panorama of reactions in this section. Thinking is guided by innumerable reactions there.

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

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Fri, 12 Jun 2009 #15
Thumb_copy_of_image0065 Ramesh G India 40 posts in this forum Offline

Sahni,

To your direct and pointed question I have no answer! But I can indirectly and vaguely respond to you. Almost all people around me seem to like me (I am not lying!) so I think it's an indication that I have an iota of love in me. Friend, I'm not opposed to the feeling of love, I'm against love and compassion as concepts. I feel sensitivity at a given moment is more important than search for truth.

Freedom from the known is Attention in the Unknown: Krishnamurti J

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Sat, 13 Jun 2009 #16
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Those around John Wayne Gacy seemed to like him also. Yet he murdered several people. It is a politicians job to get people to like him also, does he have love?

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Sat, 13 Jun 2009 #17
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Sorry, you are imagining a difference in thought. Thought is a stored memory. Whether technical or personal, it is a stone cold dead thing. The richness of imagery you spoke of is simply a clever manipulation of those images of past events, whether technical or personal, which we call personality. It is a superficial personal/selfish thing. Yet it is what we worship about ourselves.

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Sat, 13 Jun 2009 #18
Thumb_patricia_1_2016_copy Patricia Hemingway Australia 46 posts in this forum Offline

Randal Shacklett wrote:
Yet it is what we worship about ourselves.

Of course - we are our own best creation!

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Sat, 13 Jun 2009 #19
Thumb_copy_of_image0065 Ramesh G India 40 posts in this forum Offline

Randal Shacklett wrote:
Sorry, you are imagining a difference in thought. Thought is a stored memory. Whether technical or personal, it is a stone cold dead thing. The richness of imagery you spoke of is simply a clever manipulation of those images of past events, whether technical or personal, which we call personality. It is a superficial personal/selfish thing. Yet it is what we worship about ourselves.

I don't know why we should condemn thought or ourselves. By calling the personality superficial or selfish we don't solve the problem; we only aggravate what we condemn.

Freedom from the known is Attention in the Unknown: Krishnamurti J

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Sun, 14 Jun 2009 #20
Thumb_patricia_1_2016_copy Patricia Hemingway Australia 46 posts in this forum Offline

Ramesh G wrote:
I don't know why we should condemn thought or ourselves.

It is not a question of condemning or judgment. It is simply the facing of the fact of what humanity is and the damage perpetrated, without turning it all into an experience to be either avoided or condemned.

We are the world - we are responsible. Who else is going to see this if we do not?

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Sun, 14 Jun 2009 #21
Thumb_deleted_user_med Linda Thorlakson United States 42 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Keshni Sahni wrote:
What was your experience with truth-seeking?

My experience with truth-seeking has been: I search for universal truths which apply to all people and situations. Once I have determined what I believe to be a universal truth, I can't help but compare how well everybody, including myself, measures up to it.

I suppose I'm an excellent example of what K talks about when he says that, to search for something, means that you already know what it is that you are searching for (and are, thus, limiting what you find to that which you think you already know).

I very much like the idea of giving up on the truth-seeking and, through recognizing and eliminating the false, allowing the truth to find me instead. Unfortunately, I seem to be as attached to that truth-seeking habit of mine as I am to all my other habits and searches.

Maybe, instead of asking myself: "Is there an ending to my search?" I would do better to ask myself: "How can I possibly search for something when I don't have a clue what I'm searching for?" Maybe then, my search would dissolve before it even gets going in the first place.

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Sun, 14 Jun 2009 #22
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

I call only for an end to everlasting human competitive conflict.
I neither condemn nor promote the human capacity for self aggrandizment.

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Sun, 14 Jun 2009 #23
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

"how can I possibly search for something when I don't have a clue what I'm searching for". Maybe you are not searching for something, maybe we/you are simply trying to eliminate the continual ache of the human condition?

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Sun, 14 Jun 2009 #24
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

We are responsible Patricia, but only in our beliefs, until it manifests as action. Are we acting responsibly concerning the human perpetrated damage? Do I yell at my spouse? Do I give the finger to my fellow drivers out there? Do I give the finger to Randy? ;o)
Aggression, the only responsibility is to end it in ourselves.

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Sun, 14 Jun 2009 #25
Thumb_patricia_1_2016_copy Patricia Hemingway Australia 46 posts in this forum Offline

Linda said: "I suppose I'm an excellent example of what K talks about when he says that, to search for something, means that you already know what it is that you are searching for (and are, thus, limiting what you find to that which you think you already know)."

Hello Linda. That is a trap anyone can fall into if one's search involves an 'outcome', and unfortunately in the very early days K did offer 'outcomes' - (as in: 'To set man absolutely free') Many still cling to what they see as promises of 'enlightenment'. This is why the austerity of the teaching at the end of K's life is so much clearer, but not nearly as popular.

Is it possible to find out for oneself without projecting any outcome? That has been my question, and I am only sharing it - not recommending it. OK?

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Sun, 14 Jun 2009 #26
Thumb_copy_of_image0065 Ramesh G India 40 posts in this forum Offline

Keshni Sahni wrote:
It is simply the facing of the fact of what humanity is and the damage perpetrated, without turning it all into an experience to be either avoided or condemned.
We are the world - we are responsible. Who else is going to see this if we do not?

I'm 100 per cent with you.

Freedom from the known is Attention in the Unknown: Krishnamurti J

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Sun, 14 Jun 2009 #27
Thumb_copy_of_image0065 Ramesh G India 40 posts in this forum Offline

Randal Shacklett: I call only for an end to everlasting human competitive conflict. I neither condemn nor promote the human capacity for self aggrandizment.

I feel relieved, thanks.

Freedom from the known is Attention in the Unknown: Krishnamurti J

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Sun, 14 Jun 2009 #28
Thumb_deleted_user_med Dappling Light India 99 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

Randal,
I am going back in the thread now. Can we be free from all memory - be it technical or experiential?

There is a certain beauty associated with conditioning.

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Sun, 14 Jun 2009 #29
Thumb_patricia_1_2016_copy Patricia Hemingway Australia 46 posts in this forum Offline

Have you noticed there is something wrong with the format on here? Anyone quoted comes up as Keshni.

Are you there Dev? Technical problem!

This post was last updated by Patricia Hemingway Sun, 14 Jun 2009.

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Mon, 15 Jun 2009 #30
Thumb_deleted_user_med Randal Shacklett United States 100 posts in this forum ACCOUNT DELETED

"can we be free....?". That is a very interesting question. Who is "we"?

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